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Switch to Forum Live View Danish Protester: No-One Would Care if A Palestinian Was Hit by A Rifle
2 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 5:23PM #1
KindredSai
Posts: 5,484

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/20/dan...


Danish protester: 'No one would care if a Palestinian was hit with a rifle'


Andreas Ias says his treatment by Israeli soldier is nothing compared to the systematic violence carried out on Palestinians



editing reduced font size. RK

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 24, 2012 - 01:16AM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 22, 2012 - 2:11AM #2
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,310

From KS link above:


Nevertheless, Ias – not his real name – is dismayed that in the aftermath of him being struck in the face with a soldier's rifle, so little attention has focused on what he describes as the routine aggression, harassment and displacement suffered by Palestinian villagers in the area.


"It has been framed in the media as the 'Danish incident', as though this is not how the IDF normally act," he said, swathed in a red keffiyeh in a Ramallah cafe. "But what happened to me is nothing compared to the systematic violence carried out on Palestinians. This is not a single incident, it's what we see every day. But it's very difficult to move the focus from me to the issues of the Palestinian struggle in the West Bank."


While volunteering for the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) in the West Bank over the past six weeks, Ias says he has witnessed "a process of ethnic cleansing that has been going on since the start of the occupation".


"I've seen people whose homes have been demolished in the middle of the night by dozens of soldiers, people who are left with nothing. I've seen Bedouin villages without running water or electricity next to Israeli settlements with total control over water resources. I've seen people denied their basic human rights and any hope for the future. You can't experience that without it changing you."


The last sentance struck me. There are many posts here about Jew hatred. I have always maintained you can not hate somebody for nothing. As that young man said, you can not experience that without it changing you. Sorry folks, you love somebody for a reason, you hate somebody for a reason.  You try to forgive if you can. From what some people put up in war zones, if they can forgive they are better than most of us.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 22, 2012 - 12:09PM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 22, 2012 - 5:21AM #3
shmuelgoldstein
Posts: 2,325

Apr 22, 2012 -- 2:11AM, Dostojevsky wrote:


... is dismayed that in the aftermath of him being struck in the face with a soldier's rifle, ...



That cowardly ________ is "dismayed"?! Boy, he's got a lot of nerve. Notice he's afraid to show his face in any Israeli-controlled area during a week-day.


He comes to a country, violates their laws, provokes the authorities, and succeeds in getting someone to lose his cool. But he gets it recorded on video, thus enabling him to cause that person to be removed from his post (a war hero, no less: Eisner went back into the line of fire in the Second Lebanon War to remove a Benaya Rein's body). This Danish work succeeded in doing something that no enemy was - neutralization of Eisner.


The reason you don't hear about it regarding local Yesha Arabs is because it is very very rare. And they don't provoke IDF officers, they're fanatics but not stupid. Not sure? Well, let's see the documentation. It wasn't too hard for this blonde SOB to show his documentation.

Moderated by Miraj on Apr 23, 2012 - 09:07PM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 22, 2012 - 8:00AM #4
LeahOne
Posts: 16,246

That a member of an international conspiracy to demonize Israel and Israeli citizens would make such a ridiculous inflammatory accusation should suprise nobody.


That a paper like the 'guardian' woudl be eager to print such imaginary 'knowledge' with which to defame Israelis in general is not surprising.


Nor have the crocodile tears of 'support' for this smear campaign been any surprise.


Yes, there are people with much next to people with nothing - but did the ones with much actually take anything from the others????  Anyone interested in actual truth and justice would at least pause to ask that question......but there don't seem to be many of those about.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 1:50PM #5
KindredSai
Posts: 5,484

Apr 22, 2012 -- 8:00AM, LeahOne wrote:


That a member of an international conspiracy to demonize Israel and Israeli citizens would make such a ridiculous inflammatory accusation should suprise nobody.


That a paper like the 'guardian' woudl be eager to print such imaginary 'knowledge' with which to defame Israelis in general is not surprising.


Nor have the crocodile tears of 'support' for this smear campaign been any surprise.


Yes, there are people with much next to people with nothing - but did the ones with much actually take anything from the others????  Anyone interested in actual truth and justice would at least pause to ask that question......but there don't seem to be many of those about.


 




A member of an international conspiracy?


If you knew anything about British media you'd know the Guardian is centre left, there are Pro-Israelis, there are Pro-Palestinians. British media is not as right wing as US or Israeli media, haaretz and huffington post being striking exceptions.


As for crocodile tears please. There is a greater use of crocodile tears and holocaust sympathy to not only censor fair criticism against Israel but to actually justify violent attacks against Palestinians and their supporters.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 23, 2012 - 09:42PM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 4:02PM #6
LeahOne
Posts: 16,246

Golly gee, KSai - just what does that 'I' in "ISM" stand for?  THAT's the conspiracy.


Shall I go back and spell out the entire rest of my post for you??? 


The 'ISM' are run by a bunch of Marxist gits and round up whatever useful idiots they can to make trips to Israel and around the world for the express purpose of harassing Israel and its nonMuslim citizens.


They don't give a flying fig for the Palestinians, except as an excuse to be an embarassment to thier own national governments - and to keep alive the sick fantasy that their failed ideology has not swirled down the crapper after all


I don't have much patience with Marxists - no more than I do for fascists.   Them and their oh-so-righteous indignation and tossing the 'f-bomb' (= "fascist") at everyone who doesn't agree .  And repeating the same worthless canards and lies endlessly as if that'll make 'em come true.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2012 - 6:17PM #7
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,643

Well now, this explains a lot. It certainly explains the protesters both here on B'net and the ones who fly in from Europe for a little protest and a week on the beach in Tel Aviv.

The spoiled leftist radical

Op-ed: Provocative foreign activists exploit Israel’s tolerance and comfortable lifestyle

During my first year at the Hebrew University I worked at a typical Jerusalem bar – coffee and pastry in the morning, hamburgers for lunch and plenty of beer in the evening. The bar's proximity to Jerusalem's city center made it popular with the foreign peace activists who arrive in Jerusalem quite often. On numerous occasions I spoke to those who grabbed a drink after another day of protesting in Sheikh Jarrah or Bi'lin. Time after time I found myself wondering – why do they even bother coming here? How can a 20 year old Danish boy wake up one morning and tell his parents he's flying to the Middle East?
. . .

Indeed, Israel holds a strange dissonance that we have developed throughout our years of living by the sword. The south is bombed, one million citizens sit in bomb shelters, but 15-20 kilometers away – everything is just the same. We have created a situation where little Israel consists of two parallel universes. The foreign activists fit perfectly into one and only one of those universes – the good, comfortable and quiet one.

 
The second reason was explained to me by two Swedish activists who loved the mixture of Arak and fresh grapefruit juice in their cocktails. I asked them once this one clichéd question that always comes to mind – "So why Israel of all places? Why not Syria? Egypt? Russia or China?" One of them put on a serious face. "Are you insane?" he asked me. "These are all extremely dangerous places!"

 

And that's when it hit me.

 

These people know that nothing bad is going to happen to them here. The massive exposure of the high-ranked Israeli officer who struck a protestor, and the amount of condemnation it received, proves how unusual this incident was. When the worst thing that could happen to you is to get smacked on the face and become a war hero among your friends – why wouldn't you hold up a sign? Why wouldn't you throw a stone at a soldier or a police officer?

. . .

"So wait," I asked in all seriousness. "You wouldn't have come here if you thought you could get badly hurt?" My Swedish friend grinned. "I don't think so," he said. "I may be a radical, but I'm also a spoiled one!" And they both burst out laughing.

 
That's when I realized that for many of those foreign peace activists, this is all just a game. And in this game we, the Israelis and Palestinians, are the pieces. They come from all corners of the world to a faraway country they have never been to before. They confront soldiers and policemen, blocking roads and holding signs. Moreover – as long as they have their cold beer by the end of the evening, as long as they lay their heads in a comfy and friendly hostel – they will continue to arrive.
. . .

I hope that once they are here, beyond the screens of blind hatred, they will be able to find the light in the existence of Israel. I hope they will embrace how lucky they are to be “spoiled radicals” here with us. Then they might take a step back and scale back the “Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea" calls a bit. Hopefully they will realize that if that actually happened, and Israel disappeared, they will not have anywhere else to go.

full article:
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-42196...

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 4:29PM #8
KindredSai
Posts: 5,484

Apr 23, 2012 -- 4:02PM, LeahOne wrote:


Golly gee, KSai - just what does that 'I' in "ISM" stand for?  THAT's the conspiracy.


Shall I go back and spell out the entire rest of my post for you??? 


The 'ISM' are run by a bunch of Marxist gits and round up whatever useful idiots they can to make trips to Israel and around the world for the express purpose of harassing Israel and its nonMuslim citizens.


They don't give a flying fig for the Palestinians, except as an excuse to be an embarassment to thier own national governments - and to keep alive the sick fantasy that their failed ideology has not swirled down the crapper after all


I don't have much patience with Marxists - no more than I do for fascists.   Them and their oh-so-righteous indignation and tossing the 'f-bomb' (= "fascist") at everyone who doesn't agree .  And repeating the same worthless canards and lies endlessly as if that'll make 'em come true.


 




Being a critic of Israel doesn't necessarily make you a Marxist, while there is a Marxist support for Palestine, there is also a Marxist support Israel. Most notably Christopher Hitchens, a supporter of Israel in later life found no disagreement with his Trotskite principles and it's confrontation of a totalitarian force like Islamism.






Moderated by rangerken on Apr 25, 2012 - 12:22AM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 12:19AM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 16,246

I never paid much attention to Hitchens, but I'd bet he's about the only 'Marxist' who's expressed public support for Israel.  But then he was actually a Trotskyite, as you said - so does he even count?


Nothing I have seen in the past 40+ years has given me an impression that Marxists are really all that interested in 'liberating' anyone so much as enlarging their support and thus influence.  IOW,  Marxist organizations per se are not 'charitable' - they exist to advance Marxism. 


To be sure, there are some in various Marxist groups who sincerely do wish to help people - but they are not generally the individuals in charge or organizing efforts such as these SHOWS of 'support for the poor oppressed Palestinians'.


Oh, it's a SHOW all right - but the real point is to oppose the US and 'capitalism'.  In this case, Israel is just a stand-in. 


If the blessed saintly organization of ISM really gave a flying fig for the Pals - there are any number of 'mini-loan' plans and other ideas (the Heifer Project) which could help families and villages and grow a Palestinian economy and infrastructure.  But no......they prefer to put their money into grandstanding and confrontations.


I've been watching Marxists burble about 'the oppressed masses' while protesting in ways which do nothing to help anyone.  I've seen this kind of thing for over 4 decades.  And I remain unimpressed with the 'achievements' of such Marxist organizations.  I think they're basically frauds, yes - and generally that people who trust in them are fools and idiots....based as I said, on 40+ years of direct observation and following their speeches and actions for myself.


Moderated by rangerken on Apr 25, 2012 - 12:22AM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 1:32PM #10
KindredSai
Posts: 5,484



My point being, one cannot label those as activists as Marxists, there is no evidence to suggest that this Danish protester was a Marxist, these are labels to censor valid criticism against Israel.


Moderated by rangerken on Apr 25, 2012 - 03:04PM
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