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4 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 6:48PM #41
Posts: 21,796

Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:43AM, CharikIeia wrote:

The whole "American Dream" is identical to "buying crap you don't need"...

Your people even calls it "the pursuit of happiness", LOL!

Capitalism, Made in USA.

Actually "buying crap you don't need"... is not part of the American Dream. It started as something else all together. Generally it is consider having ones own home, Being able to work yourself up in your job, so you  can afford to buy and own your own home.

I am not saying that has not been corrupted, but "buying crap you don't need"... is not called the American dream.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 11:04PM #42
Posts: 11,110

Apr 30, 2012 -- 5:14PM, costrel wrote:

Well, if they don't want to take personal responsibility, then that is their problem. Likewise, if they don't want to save money and want to rely only on Social Security, etc., again, that is their problem. If they want to go into credit card debt, if they don't want to save, if they want to throw away their money on cheap junk made in China or on lottery tickets or alcohol or cigarettes or smart phones or flat screen TVs or recreational vehicles or whatever it may be, then they will have to live with the consequences of their spending decisions. (And as long as I live on the Great Plains, my non-Republican vote actually does not count.) 

(And by the way -- if you want me to continue to reply to your posts in future, use the quote boxes. I do not reply to posts that use the color-coding schemes to identify posters' words that certain posters on certain boards have begun to use of late. I decided to reply this one time because you probably are not aware that I do not reply to posts that use fancy color-coding schemes to identify posts. I am not against using colors -- I use them to distinguish my text from text that I cite from books, etc. -- but I am against using color in place of using the quote boxes.) 

Yep .. had no idea that you don't like color responses.  ... sooo .. back to our civil discussion .. :-)

I wish I could agree with you that people's tendency to shirk their personal responsibility is "their problem".  I wish I could agree, because, this is not what I see as the response that Washington D.C. feels is appropriate, and particularly, the response on the left side of the halls of congress.

What I see is that all these people who spend recklessly, are "victims" ... victims of evil corporate entities .. victims of rich white people .. victims evil GOP legislation .. victims of ANYTHING .. except themselves and their own desires.

Thus, we will get regulation and legislation designed to "make it all ok" for these folks.  It's funny, ... well not really, .. but ironic.  After Woodrow Wilson [D] created the Federal Reserve and cheap money, people went out mortgaged the house, borrowd to the hilt, and put it all in the stock market.  The creation of cheap money by the Fed is what fueled the Stock Market Bubble of the 20s.  People were irresponsible, because the Government had removed an obstacle that inhibited people from spending recklessly, ie., there was no cheap money before the Fed.  So .. the market crashes, as all false bubble do, and we had people destitute on the streets.  All of their hard owned wealth was confiscated by the "connected" of the large Banks! And .. all by design, Mellon's Great Contraction, pushed the recession of 29 down to a depression of untold magnitude.  Again .. all by design, in order to usher in "changes".

Did you know, that the Banking Industry in the Great Depression only saw a "decrease in profits", by about 40%, but not once did the Banking Industry "lose money", as did the corporate and individual world. Oh sure, 1/3 of banks, small independently owned banks went under, but banking in those days was not like it is today. The politically connected insider banking industry, benefited from the Great Depression grandly.  As noted in several articles, the "connected" knew the Federal Reserve was about to print and loan cheap money ... so they bought up tons of it ... with the resulting inflation, they benefited .. since they knew the Fed was about to raise interests rates, they moved their assetts to cash, well before the Crash of 29, so they lost nothing, with massive deflation, the money they held bought even more, like Farmers Lands, who were forced off because they couldn't pay the mortgage, and businesses and capital.  Then, the hero of the left .. FDR, made it such that the "connected" did not have to pay back loans in "gold", so they were able to pay off their loans with worthless pieces of paper.

Of course, one of the goals of the Left at the time was to usher in these "poverty programs" like S.S.  Essentially, the goal of the Left at the time was to transform America from a Farming, small business, producing nation ... to a population of serfs, .. wage slaves. And . .they succeeded.  And they continue to succeed, because the American Public has traded it's liberty for a false security!

And now .. with the reality that such large socialistic schemes cannot work, the people who willingly gave away their "liberty" are being very protective of what they allegedly got in the deal .... a plethora of "safety nets" .. that false security.

The end result will be that the American Public will be pushed one more level lower into serfdom, one more level deeper into "wage slavery". ... actually, even worse than that ...

The American Public is going to be devalued to "pet" status, .. depending on their masters to fullfill their every need, and performing every trick that the Liberal Elite tells them to perform.

That ... my dear Cesmom .. is your Liberal Utopia.


Costrel .. you really should read this.

Being as the Fed Reserve was a Democrat Stronghold from its inception, I'd be willing to bet if I dig deep enough, the Great Depression was brought about for the sole purpose of ushering in this abomination of a system we endure today.  FDR's four main issues ....

"The four main issues before the courts were the delegation by Congress of lawmaking powers to the executive branch, the New Deal redefinition of all economic activity as interstate commerce subject to regulation, new takings of private property as a result of agricultural allotments and price controls, and the gutting of the Tenth Amendment, which reserves to the states all powers not expressly given to the federal government by the Constitution. The federal government ceased to be restrained by the U.S. Constitution and became whatever the New Dealers wanted it to be. As Justice George Sutherland observed at the time, this revolutionary change did not occur through constitutional amendment but as a result of changes in the attitudes of a few men."

The bold is what defines the modern day conservative.  No suprise, modern day liberals embrace this "gutting of the Tenth Amendment" .. as left of center government is traditionally and remains "dictatorial" in nature.

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4 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 1:24PM #43
Posts: 557

Apr 27, 2012 -- 9:18AM, Bodean wrote:

There's another side of that equation that you ignore. ... it's called social spending.

By far, the overwhelming amount of spending is tied up in wealth redistribution and spending that goes directly to people, and the administration cost.

Spending is what drives debt ... not receipts.  In the last two recessions, if you go to the Federal Budget Historical Tables, the deficit spending was the result of an ever increasing spending template coupled with a decrease in tax receipts directly correlated to a decrease in econommic activity.  I.E., our government did not make the necessary adjustments in spending to account for the decreases in tax receipts.

It goes down to what you can control, and what you cannot.  No government can control the reciepts, because they are dependent on the chaotic economy.  But .. every government has direct control of spending.

As for transitioning to alternative fuels, I will hold my position that the Government is going about it all wrong.  They are focusing on trying to ram Alternative Fuels down the publics throats, when the better tac would be to create the demand for such, and let the Venture Capitalists take care of bringing those techs to market.

If you look at the chart in this article:

you will see that borrowing was going up across the board--not just for government--with corporations racking up something like $30+ trillion and households almost $10 trillion a few years ago. At one point, personal debt even reached more than 100 pct of disposable income. And these were taking place amid four decades of trade deficits.

Stop fooling yourself into thinking that it was simply the fault of the government, especially given a Fed that is essentially controlled by private banks. We are looking at a government that essentially works for bankers, venture capitalists, and other financiers responsible for  over $370 trillion in unregulated derivatives, and part of a global market of over $1 quadrillion, with only around a trillion dollars of that, via subprime lending involving Wall Street banks, that led to the current global recession.

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4 years ago  ::  May 08, 2012 - 2:08PM #44
Posts: 11,110

May 8, 2012 -- 1:24PM, paeng wrote:

Stop fooling yourself into thinking that it was simply the fault of the government, especially given a Fed that is essentially controlled by private banks.

paeng ... what are you trying to say here?  I"m not sure you're arguing with me, as I haven't said anything about what drives the economy.

We're talking about Government Debt and Deficit.

Personal Debt, and the Federal Reserve owning this nation, etc etc etc ... are different topics.

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