Post Reply
Page 3 of 3  •  Prev 1 2 3
Switch to Forum Live View Gantz: Israel must protect Jews at home, abroad
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 3:04AM #21
habesor
Posts: 5,423

Char,


One last comment. This is about the alleged reason for the second intifada being because the Jews were going to destroy the Al Aksa mosque. Why do you think Arafat named it the Al Aksa Intifada?


Habesor

Habesor
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 5:28AM #22
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,303

Apr 18, 2012 -- 2:24AM, habesor wrote:


Char, 


It seems to me that you are getting into the stance of someone who finds that no matter what Israel does, it is wrong. I suppose that if Israel was not cautious in its foreign policy you would be arguing that it was showing a high degree of arrogance in its behavior. 



I don't think this is accurate at all. E.g., I was very impressed by the Olmert government, which from a domestric Israeli perspective seems nowadays to be filed under "failed government", I wonder why actually. Also, I do not see what exactly would be "cautious" about the Netanyahu government's policies. In my mind, 'being cautious' requires the active consideration of options to begin with. A stone or piece of wood are not cautious, they just are what they are, passive, part of a status quo that will only change by external forces.

tl;dr
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 5:39AM #23
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,303

Apr 18, 2012 -- 3:04AM, habesor wrote:


This is about the alleged reason for the second intifada being because the Jews were going to destroy the Al Aksa mosque. Why do you think Arafat named it the Al Aksa Intifada?



As I recall, that's because Ariel Sharon provocatively visited the Temple Wall with a Likud delegation, symbolically asserting Jerusalem as 100% Israeli.

tl;dr
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 6:06AM #24
NahumS
Posts: 1,638

Olmert failed because he was a corrupt opportunist and was tired of defending Israel. He launched a "fire sale" of national assets and offered impossible prizes to the Palestinians - a virtual capitulation instead of negotiation.His desire for "normalcy" and "comfort" went far beyond any realistic appraisal of the political situation.


Antisemitism is latent in nearly every society - and Israel's policies are just a convenient excuse for a flare-up. Economics can cause the flare-up, so can religion or anything else. The essence of Zionism is to provide an alternative to Jews being at the mercy of the predominant Gentile society surrounding them: a home in their own country.


While Israel can not guarantee the safety of every Jew in the world, it has improved the wellbeing of the entire Jewish people. It has provided a home for Jews in danger and for entire Jewish communities in danger of being wiped out. And Jews in Israel, religious, traditional and secular,  have a vibrant Jewish life, filled with study of Jewish texts, Jewish culture, celebrating Jewish festivals and speaking Hebrew. Israel has preserved Jewish identity and "exports" Jewish identity and education to the Diaspora.


In terms of personal safety- we live normally and feel safe. Statistically, there is less crime here than in most parts of the US or Western Europe, even figuring terror and acts of war.

Moderated by CharikIeia on Apr 19, 2012 - 02:27AM
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 7:36AM #25
BDboy
Posts: 4,510

Apr 17, 2012 -- 5:25PM, browbeaten wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 4:32PM, BDboy wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 12:47PM, CharikIeia wrote:


It's funny how Dos & Co. complain about pro-Jewish mainstream media, and you, Squirrel & Co. complain about anti-Jewish mainstream media. I guess as usual, the truth lies somewhere in-between... but then, truth may be something that only I care for, as several admissions to open partisanship & bias have proven.




 


>>>>>>> I agree with you. These counter claims are made simply to "Respond" to valid criticism of Israeli policies!!


Which often mislead people.


Here are some facts...


Jews lived in many parts of Arabia, Iran for thousands of years in relative peace with Christians and Muslims of those areas. Life of Arab Jews became risky once local population saw violence by the state of Israel. As a result many Jews from different arab countries were forced to migrate from their own lands.


There are serious allegations against Israel for helping fanatics. During 80's Israelis worked with the CIA, Saudi and Pakistanis to block Russia in Afghanistan. Inspired from initial  success they helped launching the Hamas movement to block more secular PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization). Both of those initiatives did not work well in the long run and back fired on USA, Saudis, Pakistanis and Israel.


While I am sad to watch innocent Jewish people suffering, part of the blame goes to flawed policies of Israel.


 


 



BDboy, please explain to me how my family was forced out of Morocco for being Jewish?  They weren't part of Israel and had nothing to do with Israel.  How about all the Jews from most every Arab country?  None were Israeli or had anything to do with Israel.  Can you explain this to me?


It seems to me that your mistaken.  It was not because of Israel, but simply because they were Jewish. Wouldn't you agree?






 


>>>>> If you RE-read my post again. I said Israel's violent birth is PARTLY to blame for Jewish suffering in different Arab countries. Of course leaders of those countries could have done better.


But as seen in Arab countries and in Israel, politicians care less about dignity of people and abuse people for political points.


Israel is PARTLY to blame for treating native non-Jews so badly.


Let me give you an example. Since 9-11 Muslims in the US faced a lot of problems. They have been loyal Americans for decades but their loyalty and their faith was questioed since 9-11.


Albeit they have done NOTHING but protecting American interest (BY working with FBI, Police etc) but they are still facing problems.


Jews in Arab countries faced similar (Not same but SIMILAR) dialema. They lived with Christian and Muslim arabs for centuries but their loyalty was questioned. People "Unfairly" targeted them and they suffered.


Just like fanatical Muslims caused great harm to global Muslim population, similarly violent state of Israel with discriminatory policies towards non-Jews caused sufferings of Jews all over the world.


Since Average Jews are much more educated and connection to modern culture, I expected them to be able to stop abuses by state of Israel. I know good number of good people are doing their level best but right now fanatics rules Israel and policies reflects that SAD fact of life.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 7:41AM #26
BDboy
Posts: 4,510

Apr 18, 2012 -- 6:06AM, NahumS wrote:


Olmert failed because he was a corrupt opportunist and was tired of defending Israel. He launched a "fire sale" of national assets and offered impossible prizes to the Palestinians - a virtual capitulation instead of negotiation.His desire for "normalcy" and "comfort" went far beyond any realistic appraisal of the political situation.




 


>>>>>>>> This is just your point of view. Which does not store much for non-Jews in your area.


Like Rabin, when Olmert came close to making peace, fanatics rejected him. This happened many times in Israel and they should not be blaming others for this.


You reap what you sow

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 2:42AM #27
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,303

Host note: this thread was cleaned from another topic, concerning whether or not talk about Middle-East-related topics was "forbidden" in any way, shape or form.


You can find a new thread addressing this over here: CLICK

tl;dr
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 3 of 3  •  Prev 1 2 3
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook