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Switch to Forum Live View If every mom is a working mom
2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 11:12AM #1
Kwinters
Posts: 21,936
...then moms on income assistance are already working, and already have a job.

Also, what dignity are women who raise their children are working, why don't that work provide women and men with dignity?

While I was governor,” Romney said, “85 percent of the people on a form of welfare assistance in my state had no work requirement. I wanted to increase the work requirement.

I said, for instance, that even if you have a child two years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, ‘Well that’s heartless,’ and I said ‘No, no, I’m willing to spend more giving daycare to allow those parents to go back to work. It’ll cost the state more providing that daycare, but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.’”
Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 11:48AM #2
Ironhold
Posts: 11,513

The idea is that if a person gets too entrenched in welfare, there's the temptation for them to never get off of it. For example, Snopes.com has an article about a rather extreme "welfare queen" who complains about how level of existance yet has a ginormous TV set in her living room.


Thus, some conservatives lean towards "encourage people on welfare to get back out into the job market", the idea being that welfare should only be temporary and that the person should be nudged back towards working as soon as possible.



In fact, in the LDS faith, ministers have the right to not only examine the personal finances of someone who petitions for assistance but to also request that the person "work" (such as stocking shelves in the storehouse or washing windows at church) as part of their receipt of assistance.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:31PM #3
Cesmom
Posts: 4,715

The reality is that being a stay at home mom is not an option for most women.  Now, if a woman and her husband have made plans to make it financially possible for her to be a stay at home mom, more power to her.  If, however, she is in the unfortunate situation of being on public assistance, that eliminates the luxury of being able to choose 'stay at home mom' status. She needs to find employment.  


I'm not un-sympathetic.  I have a good friend who is recently divorced with 2 kids.  She is temporarily relying on some public assistance.  She has to.  Her plan with her husband was that she would be a stay at home mom.  Since that's no longer an option, the state is helping her out while she finishes her degree so she can enter the workforce and support her kids.  That's what the welfare system is supposed to be for...helping people temporarily while they actively work to fix their situation.  It should not be for women who want to be a stay at home mom living off tax dollars.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:41PM #4
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

I spent two years as the volunteer co-ordinator for local food bank and the majority of the volunteers were welfare recipients. There are all sorts of reasons why welfare recipients are not able to seek paid employment - health issues, literacy problems, inability to speak English - all sorts of reasons. Most of my on-welfare volunteers volunteered with us because we offered literacy programs and English as a Second Language classes, to help them get off welfare. We also ran a forklift operator training program, and a food handling training program, both of which met provincial certification standards.  


Anyone who has raised children will know that stay at home moms are working moms! And it would pay our society to support moms to stay at home to raise their children, since the children who spend the first four years of life with mom at home are better off later on. Once the kids are of school age, welfare moms can be encouraged to take courses in order to enter the work force to be financially independent.

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:48PM #5
Cesmom
Posts: 4,715

Apr 16, 2012 -- 12:41PM, Mostyn32 wrote:


I spent two years as the volunteer co-ordinator for local food bank and the majority of the volunteers were welfare recipients. There are all sorts of reasons why welfare recipients are not able to seek paid employment - health issues, literacy problems, inability to speak English - all sorts of reasons. Most of my on-welfare volunteers volunteered with us because we offered literacy programs and English as a Second Language classes, to help them get off welfare. We also ran a forklift operator training program, and a food handling training program, both of which met provincial certification standards.  


Anyone who has raised children will know that stay at home moms are working moms! And it would pay our society to support moms to stay at home to raise their children, since the children who spend the first four years of life with mom at home are better off later on. Once the kids are of school age, welfare moms can be encouraged to take courses in order to enter the work force to be financially independent.




I don't dispute that stay at home moms are working moms.  Personally, I work 3 jobs, one of those being the title of 'mom'.  


Assuming a child is attending a good daycare center, it can actually provide some much needed structure and instruction for the child.  Whether a child is better off with a stay at home mom relies greatly on what kind of stay at home mom they have.


I have no problem with a mom receiving welfare benefits while she attends school and/or vocational training.  If the job market offers nothing promising at the moment, volunteer work is a perfectly acceptable option.  Staying at home should not be.  

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 12:55PM #6
TENAC
Posts: 25,839

The overriding problem, the elephant in the room is


SEX WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF MARRAIGE.



Now we are wanting to be concerned with dignity?  Arent we a little past that?



I disagree with Romney.  Providing daycare (federal level) is the same as providing contraceptives;  its condoning and enabling what at one time in the country was considered undigified.


And it is.  If it werent for the federal govt intervention primarily in the 1960's we wouldnt have the issue as we do now.


Now it will take two generations for sex outside of marriage to become undignified once again.  You would have to take away the federal programs that prop it up and allow it to exist.  I say this realizing that many of you consider it diginifed to give birth even purposely out of wedlock, but any number of statistics will show you this is the worst situation to purposely bring a child into.



Laws need to chase sperm donors for life.  You helped make the child, you help support the child.


We need more societal peer pressure to reverse our current plight.



How do you like that?

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 1:03PM #7
Cesmom
Posts: 4,715

Apr 16, 2012 -- 12:55PM, TENAC wrote:


The overriding problem, the elephant in the room is


SEX WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF MARRAIGE.


Now we are wanting to be concerned with dignity?  Arent we a little past that?


I disagree with Romney.  Providing daycare (federal level) is the same as providing contraceptives;  its condoning and enabling what at one time in the country was considered undigified.




Sex without the benefit of marriage only covers part of the problem.  Note the example I gave below.  Not every woman on public assistance had a child out of wedlock.


I completely agree with Romney.  What would you suggest as an alternative?  Eliminate all aid to unemployed women with children?  Who gets horribly damaged in that scenario while the country is getting a message about what is and is not dignified?

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 1:17PM #8
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Not only are those who have kids without having a husband are never married but widowed and divorced. It is not like like the land is overrun by strumpets.


I wonder that if having kids outside of wedlock will be criminalized; jailing unwed mothers and while we are at it, jail the kids too. The privatized penal system can use the business.Undecided 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 1:30PM #9
Ironhold
Posts: 11,513

Apr 16, 2012 -- 12:55PM, TENAC wrote:


The overriding problem, the elephant in the room is


SEX WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF MARRAIGE.




What you're talking about is going to require more than just some feel-good laws.


We're going to need a massive cultural shift, one that includes convincing Hollywood to discourage such depictions and coercing most second-wave feminists to recant their stances concerning single-parent homes.


In other words, this is an effort that's going to have to come from multiple factions.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 2:52PM #10
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,626

Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:48AM, Ironhold wrote:


The idea is that if a person gets too entrenched in welfare, there's the temptation for them to never get off of it. For example, Snopes.com has an article about a rather extreme "welfare queen" who complains about how level of existance yet has a ginormous TV set in her living room.


Thus, some conservatives lean towards "encourage people on welfare to get back out into the job market", the idea being that welfare should only be temporary and that the person should be nudged back towards working as soon as possible.



 




Although it's a Wingo talking point, and thus long on puffery and short on facts, federal TANF legislation provides for a maximum of 60 months of "welfare":


"There is a maximum of 60 months of benefits within one's lifetime, but some states have instituted shorter periods.  In enforcing the 60-month time limit, some states place limits on the adult portion of the assistance only, while still aiding the otherwise eligible children in the household."


Source:  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Assistan...


Oh, and by the way:  TANF legislation dates from President Clinton's Presidency:  you know Mr Clinton, a famous "conservative."  Wink

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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