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Switch to Forum Live View If every mom is a working mom
2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 12:59PM #41
Jasr
Posts: 10,298

Apr 17, 2012 -- 12:21AM, Erey wrote:


haha





Actually Erey, your avatar has been bothering me for some time. I strongly suspect you are not a smoker...yet you portray yourself as one.


I really liked the one you used before...a pair of eyes framed by flowers.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 1:09PM #42
Jasr
Posts: 10,298

Apr 17, 2012 -- 6:01AM, Kwinters wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 11:48AM, Ironhold wrote:


The idea is that if a person gets too entrenched in welfare, there's the temptation for them to never get off of it. For example, Snopes.com has an article about a rather extreme "welfare queen" who complains about how level of existance yet has a ginormous TV set in her living room.




But being a mother IS work, according to Mitt Romney, EXCEPT when it is poor women.  Then it isn't work. They lack dignity if they don't work outside the house.


'...While I was governor, 85% of the people on a form of welfare assistance in my state, had no work requirement. And I wanted to increase the work requirement. I said, for instance, that even if you have a child two years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, well that’s heartless. And I said no, no, I’m willing to spend more giving day care to allow those parents to go back to work.


It will cost the state more, providing that day care. But I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.'



Is that a good idea? To spend more taxpayer money paying for childcare?





To my mind this is not really about welfare, but rather about Romney's freudian slip.


He elevated his wife as some kind of an expert on the plight of American women, got all righteously indignant when someone pointed out (very ineptly) that as the pampered wife of a multimillionaire and trust fund baby, Ann really does not have the first clue about the plight of American women.


Then he tried to change the subject by asserting...correctly...that motherhood for some can be a demanding full-time job.


And then, (and this is where the slip came in) in another context he revealed his true attitude about full-time motherhood, by asserting that in fact mothers on public assistance who choose paid work and subsidized day care over full time motherhood were actually electing a more dignified path.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 3:33PM #43
Erey
Posts: 17,354

Apr 18, 2012 -- 12:59PM, Jasr wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 12:21AM, Erey wrote:


haha





Actually Erey, your avatar has been bothering me for some time. I strongly suspect you are not a smoker...yet you portray yourself as one.


I really liked the one you used before...a pair of eyes framed by flowers.




Jasr,


You are familiar with the british comedy Absolutely Fabulous?  I really like that show and I think Patsy (featured in the avatar) is one of my favorites.  Patsy smokes, drinks like a pirate and is game for any drug you might have lying around.  She is my alter-alter ego, a few egos off. 


I will consider changing the avatar when I can find another that I like. I have not thought about it in a year at least. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 4:16PM #44
Jasr
Posts: 10,298

Thank you for that explanation. I had never heard of the TV show. And I'm glad to hear she is your alter ego.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 5:15PM #45
Iwantamotto
Posts: 7,800

TENAC:  The overriding problem, the elephant in the room is


SEX WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF MARRAIGE


Well, except for the example in that previous post where the woman WAS married and then magically she wasn't anymore.  Happened to my mother.


I disagree with Romney.  Providing daycare (federal level) is the same as providing contraceptives;  its condoning and enabling what at one time in the country was considered undigified.


Agreed!  Instead of daycare, do mandatory vasectomies.


Laws need to chase sperm donors for life.  You helped make the child, you help support the child.


Good luck with that.  I like "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" options.


Ironhold:  We're going to need a massive cultural shift, one that includes convincing Hollywood to discourage such depictions and coercing most second-wave feminists to recant their stances concerning single-parent homes.


I swear, if I see one more movie about clueless fathers who confuse slapstick with parenting, I'll scream. Oh, look, there's another one.  AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!


TENAC:  On the other hand I have never considered "community" equal to government.


Do you think Lincoln was mistaken when he talks of the government as being made up of US?


christzen:  While I like Clinton and consider him to have been one of the better POTUS in recent memory


Hell, I despised him and I concede he had more sense than later administrations.


Erey:  However there are many things you can do to up your chances and make it more possible.


My evil master plan is to wait until I'm capable of supporting and patient enough to support children, so then I'll be too old to have them, LOL.


I would much rather invest in the community than create MORE of the community.


Bodean:  It destroys the original pact suspected by anthropologists.  Male provides for family in exchange for exclusive rights to sexual reproduction. [a pact thought to decrease the violent competition for females, as seen in many other animal species]


I agree.  We should model our reproductive issues from, say, gorillas.  One male, lots of subservient females, killing the young males or chasing them off to prevent them from moving in on his women...


As I've said before,  a person only needs food, water and appropriate shelter to survive.  They don't need TVs, SSI-provided cell phones, etc., and shouldn't be subsidized at a level that allows such.


I sincerely doubt this in the modern age.  If you live in such a shelterd way, you do not have access to the means to stay up-to-date with current work practices.  Get rid of your tv and computer and your phone.  See how long you last in the workplace.


Of course, I think we should begin setting up some sort of basic wireless city-wide internet services so anyone can have a chance to at least check their emails or something.


Erey:  Don't get me wrong, my mother is a fantastic woman.  Just she needs to be in charge of things, people, organizations.  She is very smart, decisive and well organized, somewhat bossy woman.  I don't want all that energy focused on me.  A little breathing room please!


Yeah, well, consider yourself lucky.  I had to sit through all that. :)


Now, my cousin had the opposite problem, with a mother (my aunt) who enjoyed working more than mothering ... and it shows.  Surely there should be some happy medium in there somewhere.


I will consider changing the avatar when I can find another that I like. I have not thought about it in a year at least.


I love AbFab, as I sympathize mostly with Saffie.  Still, as you can see from MY new one, I've chosen a different look altogether, LOL.


Cost me 200 bucks, too.  :)

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:22AM #46
Erey
Posts: 17,354

Apr 18, 2012 -- 4:16PM, Jasr wrote:


Thank you for that explanation. I had never heard of the TV show. And I'm glad to hear she is your alter ego.




Jasr,


You didn't think I could pull off a hairdo like that did you?


It is a totally fun show, it has been otu for awhile and so the shows I believe are available online.  If your wife has not seen it she would probably like the show as well.  You could do it together. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 12:12PM #47
Cesmom
Posts: 4,263

Apr 17, 2012 -- 12:47PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 12:34PM, Fodaoson wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 9:22AM, Girlchristian wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 10:13PM, TENAC wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 1:30PM, Ironhold wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 12:55PM, TENAC wrote:


The overriding problem, the elephant in the room is


SEX WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF MARRAIGE.




What you're talking about is going to require more than just some feel-good laws.


We're going to need a massive cultural shift, one that includes convincing Hollywood to discourage such depictions and coercing most second-wave feminists to recant their stances concerning single-parent homes.


In other words, this is an effort that's going to have to come from multiple factions.




I dont want any feel good laws.  But I agree with you it would be a major cultural reversal of the current status quo.


Hollywood will only produce what sells.  If we keep buying smut, they will produce it.  I find it amazing when movies such as the Passion of the Christ, Fireproof, and Courageous do very well at the box office with little of the marketing required of trash movies.


I think women are turning.  It seems there has been a sudden wish to lessen lifestyles and become stay at home moms.  At our church we dont encourage it per se but there are groups that meet to show those interested how to cut back and what it will take to be a stay at home mom.


But govt cannot afford this.  Imagine how much tax revenue would be lost if 10-15% of women determined to stay at home and raise their children?  25%?  Whew.




There is some truth to this. Several years ago there was a magazine article that discussed young women who were going to college and getting their degrees, but who were fully intent on being stay at home moms when the time came. They had decided that since they had to suffer through mom not being home because of work, they weren't going to do that to their children. Some women have to work (single moms, very low income), but some say they have to work and what they really mean is they have to work in order to maintain the lifestyle they enjoy which is different.




Yep, some mother work to maintain a certain lifestyle; they do not want to rely on welfare or charity.  More than half of the population has an IQ of less than 100 (and the resulting skills and abilities) so their incomes are less than “middle class” and in many cases less than poverty .  Two incomes are needed to survive.  




Yes, like I said, some women have to work, but honestly some (NOT all) women just claim they do, but what they really mean is they have to work to keep two cars, they want name brand clothing, they want the 3500 sq ft home, they want to go on vacation every single year, etc... I think it depends on priorities for some.


Some women choose to work simply because they don't want to do without the mental stimulation that comes from work or they don't want to damage their career by taking 3 - 5 years out of the workforce.


It really is an individual decision based on individual's needs, but I do not and would not support the 'gov't' (i.e., the taxpayers) covering the cost for women to get paid maternity leave for three years.




You make a good point.  A lot of married women with children choose to work, not necessarily because they have to.  i was a stay at home mom for about a year.  We survived, but we were broke.  I was tired of being broke, so I went back to work.  I don't care about the name brand clothes, but my 2 teenage daughter do ;-).  It is an individual decision, though.  Most families could modestly survive on one income if they made that choice.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 1:29PM #48
REteach
Posts: 13,556

I had to work or I would have gone insane. When the kids were little, it was just part time, but being around adults and accomplishing something professionally meant something.  I was also role modeling for my children, as was their father who could also cook and clean a toilet.    The money was nice, but what about "having" to work for a sense of productivity and self worth?

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 1:36PM #49
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,660

Apr 19, 2012 -- 1:29PM, REteach wrote:


I had to work or I would have gone insane. When the kids were little, it was just part time, but being around adults and accomplishing something professionally meant something.  I was also role modeling for my children, as was their father who could also cook and clean a toilet.    The money was nice, but what about "having" to work for a sense of productivity and self worth?




Those who believe women should not work outside the home, do not think women have any worth. They are for reproduction, like brood mares, or milk cows. They are tools not human beings.


Just animals to preform a service. Which is why many (or even most ) of these same people do not believe in abortion to save a women's life. After all, all breeding animals are replaceable.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 1:45PM #50
REteach
Posts: 13,556

It wasn't that long ago that a divorced woman lost custody of the children, so clearly there is a cultural component.


A doctor I worked with had a wife who was Chinese. Monday mornings her parents dropped her off at day care and picked her up on Friday afternoon.  Needless to say, the Chinese had a much better subsidized child care system. I believe kibbutzim do not necessarily live with their parents either, but I am willing to be corrected on that. Everyone apparently thought Princess Di was a good mom, but those princes were shipped off to boarding school at fairly early age.  I am not convinced that the 1950s in the US were the golden age of humanity.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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