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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 3:56PM #121
Erey
Posts: 18,594

I think we can blow comments out of proportion, which makes campaign seasons so damn long.  There are  analysts paid by their respective parties  comb over and pick apart everything the opposing candidate says so they can twist it around and come up with something that has legs and can get their base all pissy. 


I think all mothers work, even Mrs. Romney.  I think we should all start our families with the expectation and the mentality that we will provide for them ourselves.  Stuff happens, we all know stuff happens.  However we all know lots of women out there don't take control of their lives and their destiny because they don't have to do so and they don't feel compelled to think seriously about making smart choices.  I used to be a social worker and during that time I was privy to some of thier thought processes when it came to having children.   Not even Obama wants to blanket award mothers with tax-payer funded time off from work, just because they have a baby and can't afford to take time off.


I like Mitt Romney as a person, but I don't think I will be voting for him.  This has nothing to do with the career or lack thereof of his wife.  I like Obama as a person, I will probably vote for him and this has nothing to do with his wife and her career before becoming first lady.




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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 4:02PM #122
REteach
Posts: 14,450

Apr 24, 2012 -- 1:10PM, Jasr wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:52PM, TENAC wrote:


As I said much earlier in this thread, there is no more valuable, no more diginified woman than the wife who has determined to stay at home and raise her children. and manage her household.  Most of you on the left would think this is purely the patriarchial, knuckle dragging  thinking dredged up from biblical times.


I can assure you, you could be no more wrong:


lol....


10 b]">[b]A wife of noble character who can find?
   She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
   and lacks nothing of value.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
   all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
   and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
   bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still night;
   she provides food for her family
   and portions for her female servants.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
   out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She sets about her work vigorously;
   her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
   and her lamp does not go out at night.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff
   and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
20 She opens her arms to the poor
   and extends her hands to the needy.
21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
   for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for her bed;
   she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
   where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
   and supplies the merchants with sashes.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
   she can laugh at the days to come.
26 She speaks with wisdom,
   and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over the affairs of her household
   and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
   her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many women do noble things,
   but you surpass them all.”
30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
   but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
31 Honor her for all that her hands have done,
   and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.



This passage describes a woman who certainly surpasses the men of her day.  And today.


If only we men could understand this and be so deserving.





She certainly surpasses the women of her day, too, since she is obviously wealthy. Like Romney, this proverb holds up a woman who is not really typical, and the example is not particularly helpful.


The other thing that seems to have escaped you, is that she is employed. She manufactures, farms, and buys and sells real estate. She hardly an exclusive stay at home full time Mom, like Mrs. Romney.




Some of the early judges in Judaism were women--until the patriarchal men took over and sent them back to the kitchen.  Even Jesus told Mary she was doing a good thing hanging out with the men and chided Martha for missing important stuff by trying to be too tied to the kitchen. 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 4:04PM #123
REteach
Posts: 14,450

Apr 24, 2012 -- 11:56AM, Do_unto_others wrote:

But no one seems to even approach the topic that the Robme's do NOT have to worry (and never have and never will) about the cost of gas, groceries, home heating fuel, day-care, nannies, schools, etc.


I remember when one of the kids would get an ear infection and augmentin cost about $60.  Wow.  That really shook the foundations of the budget at that time of our lives. 

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 4:05PM #124
Jasr
Posts: 11,265

Apr 24, 2012 -- 3:34PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 2:15PM, Jasr wrote:


I would submit that "very rich man with influence and connections helping his career for the last three decades" is much more applicable to Mitt Romney than Barack Obama.




And you keep ducking my point, that there is less economic or social difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney than there is between Barack Obama and 99.99% of Democrats, or Romney and 99.99% of Republicans.


Champions, neither of these are.





If that is your point, then why did you take so long to make it?


I would say there is a wide gap between a couple raised in the middle class, who became well off through education, lucrative employment, and publishing, and a man who was a multi-millionaire the day he was born.


But in any event, men and women of privilege are capable of championing the middle class. They just don't do it by asking their privileged spouses "what do middle class women need?"

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 6:27PM #125
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

I would bet Jasr that that is exactly what Obama asks Michelle.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 6:56PM #126
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,149

Apr 24, 2012 -- 6:27PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


I would bet Jasr that that is exactly what Obama asks Michelle.






Michelle was a “middle class woman” and Obama grew up with a middle class woman mother;


And as a community organizer Obama worked with and for middle class women.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 7:22PM #127
TENAC
Posts: 25,661

Apr 24, 2012 -- 4:02PM, REteach wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 1:10PM, Jasr wrote:


Apr 23, 2012 -- 6:52PM, TENAC wrote:


As I said much earlier in this thread, there is no more valuable, no more diginified woman than the wife who has determined to stay at home and raise her children. and manage her household.  Most of you on the left would think this is purely the patriarchial, knuckle dragging  thinking dredged up from biblical times.


I can assure you, you could be no more wrong:


lol....


10 b]">[b]A wife of noble character who can find?
   She is worth far more than rubies.
11 Her husband has full confidence in her
   and lacks nothing of value.
12 She brings him good, not harm,
   all the days of her life.
13 She selects wool and flax
   and works with eager hands.
14 She is like the merchant ships,
   bringing her food from afar.
15 She gets up while it is still night;
   she provides food for her family
   and portions for her female servants.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
   out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She sets about her work vigorously;
   her arms are strong for her tasks.
18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
   and her lamp does not go out at night.
19 In her hand she holds the distaff
   and grasps the spindle with her fingers.
20 She opens her arms to the poor
   and extends her hands to the needy.
21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
   for all of them are clothed in scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for her bed;
   she is clothed in fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
   where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
   and supplies the merchants with sashes.
25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
   she can laugh at the days to come.
26 She speaks with wisdom,
   and faithful instruction is on her tongue.
27 She watches over the affairs of her household
   and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
   her husband also, and he praises her:
29 “Many women do noble things,
   but you surpass them all.”
30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
   but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
31 Honor her for all that her hands have done,
   and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.



This passage describes a woman who certainly surpasses the men of her day.  And today.


If only we men could understand this and be so deserving.





She certainly surpasses the women of her day, too, since she is obviously wealthy. Like Romney, this proverb holds up a woman who is not really typical, and the example is not particularly helpful.


The other thing that seems to have escaped you, is that she is employed. She manufactures, farms, and buys and sells real estate. She hardly an exclusive stay at home full time Mom, like Mrs. Romney.




Some of the early judges in Judaism were women--until the patriarchal men took over and sent them back to the kitchen.  Even Jesus told Mary she was doing a good thing hanging out with the men and chided Martha for missing important stuff by trying to be too tied to the kitchen. 




Innocent

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 24, 2012 - 7:49PM #128
TENAC
Posts: 25,661

Apr 24, 2012 -- 4:05PM, Jasr wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 3:34PM, SecondSonOfDavid wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 2:15PM, Jasr wrote:


I would submit that "very rich man with influence and connections helping his career for the last three decades" is much more applicable to Mitt Romney than Barack Obama.




And you keep ducking my point, that there is less economic or social difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney than there is between Barack Obama and 99.99% of Democrats, or Romney and 99.99% of Republicans.


Champions, neither of these are.





If that is your point, then why did you take so long to make it?


I would say there is a wide gap between a couple raised in the middle class, who became well off through education, lucrative employment, and publishing, and a man who was a multi-millionaire the day he was born.


But in any event, men and women of privilege are capable of championing the middle class. They just don't do it by asking their privileged spouses "what do middle class women need?"




I dont find where Romney inherited millions.  I do find where he donated his inheritance at his fathers death to BYU:


Romney returned to Bain Capital the day after the election but still smarted from the loss, subsequently telling his brother, "I never want to run for something again unless I can win."[39][105] When his father died in 1995, Mitt donated his inheritance to BYU's George W. Romney Institute of Public Management


Other interesting things:


In June 1968, an automobile Romney was driving in southern France was hit by another vehicle, seriously injuring him and killing one of his passengers, the wife of the mission president.[nb 6] Romney, who was not at fault in the accident,[nb 6] became co-acting president of a mission demoralized and disorganized by the May civil disturbances and by the car accident.[22] Romney rallied and motivated the others and they met an ambitious goal of 200 baptisms for the year, the most for the mission in a decade.[22] By the end of his stint in December 1968, Romney was overseeing the work of 175 fellow members.[




With Bain & Company, Romney learned the "Bain way", which consisted of immersing the firm in each client's business,[48][57] and not simply to issue recommendations, but to stay with the company until they were changed for the better.[55][56][58] With a record of helping clients such as the Monsanto Company, Outboard Marine Corporation, Burlington Industries, and Corning Incorporated, Romney became a vice president of the firm in 1978 and within a few years one of its best consultants and one sought after by clients over more senior partners.[15][48][52][59] Romney became a believer in Bain's methods; he later said, "The idea that consultancies should not measure themselves by the thickness of their reports, or even the elegance of their writing, but rather by whether or not the report was effectively implemented was an inflection point in the history of consulting."[56]




Less an entrepreneur than an executive running an investment operation,[59][64] Romney was good at presenting and selling the deals the company made.[60] The firm initially gave a cut of its profits to Bain & Company, but Romney persuaded Bain to give that up.[60] Within Bain Capital, Romney spread profits from deals widely within the firm to keep people motivated, often keeping less than ten percent for himself.[65] Viewed as a fair manager, he received considerable loyalty from the firm's members.[62] Romney's wary instincts were still in force at times, and he was generally data-driven and averse to risk.





Of course this is Wik, not something relevant like The Nation or Mother Jones, but I am starting to like Romney.


For all the criticism of his Bain days, Romney did much good.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 3:49PM #129
Jasr
Posts: 11,265

Apr 24, 2012 -- 7:49PM, TENAC wrote:


I dont find where Romney inherited millions.  I do find where he donated his inheritance at his fathers death to BYU




Indeed he did, but that is not really the point. In his formative years, and even as a married graduate student (when he owned a house in suburban Boston) neither he nor his wife ever experienced the anxiety most of us in the middle class experience. They always had a large and very soft safety net.


Romney also had several college deferments and one mission deferment, which kept him far away from Vietnam.


Romney is clearly a sober, capable and intelligent man, who made good use of the resources his family provided for him. I do not think anybody would deny that. But neither he nor his spouse is any kind of authority on middle class needs or anxieties.


Apr 24, 2012 -- 7:49PM, TENAC wrote:


I am starting to like Romney.





Well it's not like you have much of a choice, now that the clown car has mercifully crashed in a ditch.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 25, 2012 - 8:35PM #130
TENAC
Posts: 25,661

Apr 25, 2012 -- 3:49PM, Jasr wrote:


Apr 24, 2012 -- 7:49PM, TENAC wrote:


I dont find where Romney inherited millions.  I do find where he donated his inheritance at his fathers death to BYU




Indeed he did, but that is not really the point. In his formative years, and even as a married graduate student (when he owned a house in suburban Boston) neither he nor his wife ever experienced the anxiety most of us in the middle class experience. They always had a large and very soft safety net.


That is not so unusal to own a house at an early age, even in college.  What I dont find where Romney leaned on his dad (as he certainly could have).


Romney also had several college deferments and one mission deferment, which kept him far away from Vietnam.


What was he doing with the deferments?  I think that was the mission work in France.


Romney is clearly a sober, capable and intelligent man, who made good use of the resources his family provided for him. I do not think anybody would deny that. But neither he nor his spouse is any kind of authority on middle class needs or anxieties.


I dont think I necessarily want someone from the middle classes to be the president of the United States.


Do you really think obama and Michelle have this feel for the middle class that they may be an authority on it?


I would more point my kids toward the direction of Romney than obama.


Apr 24, 2012 -- 7:49PM, TENAC wrote:


I am starting to like Romney.





Well it's not like you have much of a choice, now that the clown car has mercifully crashed in a ditch.


No, I can hold my nose and vote.  Done it before.  When I disagree with Roms, you will know it.





Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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