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Switch to Forum Live View For Saudi Arabia, Israel is turning from foe to friend
2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:33PM #11
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:09PM, Roodog wrote:


My point is that no Muslim State will  ever have genuinely good diplomatic relations with Israel. The Muslim world runs from Algeria to Bangladesh with only India and Israel breaking their geographic succession of countries that spans the Old World.




There are more Muslims in India than any other nation except Indonesia.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:41PM #12
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Apr 18, 2012 -- 4:17PM, browbeaten wrote:


NO. All has to do with the fact that Israel is the JEWISH State.  You can tell yourself anything you want to avoid the truth, but you can't escape it.




Israel is a schizophrenic state that claims to be secular, but also Jewish.  If it can't be honest with itself, why does it expect more from others?

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 9:54PM #13
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 14,439

Miraj


The US is Christian but secular


The UK is officially Christian but secular


Turkey is Muslim but secular


should I go on?

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 20, 2012 - 01:43AM
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 10:15PM #14
Miraj
Posts: 5,023

Apr 19, 2012 -- 9:54PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


The US is Christian but secular


The UK is officially Christian but secular


Turkey is Muslim but secular


should I go on?




Only politicians and Bible thumpers consider the US or the UK to be Christian.  In reality, they're not.  Turkey bends over backwards not to be Muslim.  Israel will eventually learn to stop wishing everyone thinks it's the "Jewish state", but, those who do can enjoy it while the delusion lasts.



The quoted material had been edited, and so had to be edited here. RK

Moderated by rangerken on Apr 20, 2012 - 01:45AM
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 3:51AM #15
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,303

Apr 19, 2012 -- 10:15PM, Miraj wrote:


Turkey bends over backwards not to be Muslim.



If you still believe that, you live in the past, Miraj.

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 12:28PM #16
BDboy
Posts: 4,510

Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:09PM, Roodog wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:34PM, BDboy wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 1:01PM, Roodog wrote:


If not a friend, then as an enemy who is willing to wait 1000 years to whip the Israelis.




 


>>>>>>> Saudi Arabia has been working with USA and Israel for decades. During 80's the whole "Mujahideen movement" was one of the product of that "Team work". The Talebans came out of those "Muhahideens" of the 80's.


Since Israeli policies are disliked by common people, Saudis work covertly with Israel in many areas. Also Israel is known to help and work with many ME dictatorships. It is nothing new.


Saudis also made few attempts to broker peace between Palestinians and Israelis. King Abduallah lead all arabs nations and gave a good proposal but Israel refused it.


I do not think Al- Saud administration want to wipe out Israel.


Maybe idiots at Fox News do not understand the difference between Iranians and Saudi Arabians. They ALSO forget that, one of the owners of Fox network (Second largest shares after Murdock!) is a Saudi citizen (A Saudi prince and well known investor!) as well.


Despite some short comings Saudis have been most "Reliable" allies of the USA since IKE was the president.


Guess it's never too late to learn things. ........





My point is that no Muslim State will  ever have genuinely good diplomatic relations with Israel. The Muslim world runs from Algeria to Bangladesh with only India and Israel breaking their geographic succession of countries that spans the Old World.




 


>>>>>>> The "Muslim world" actually runs all the way to Indonesia. There is a large province in China with a lot of Muslim population.


Since Israel did not even exist (After Biblical time) for very long in modern times, we are not there to say they will never be recognized.


For example, Turkey had excellent relationship with Israel for many decades. Since IDF killed some Turkish citizens (And an American one) in the high seas, it is a little cool now but for the longest time it was no less than excellent. From defense to political idealogy they worked as a team.


So your "Theory" is not based on ground reality. Even USA did not have "Great" relations with the Jews during holocaust but later that changed. So if you base your comments on facts, I would say anything is possible when our intentions are good.




 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 12:36PM #17
browbeaten
Posts: 2,792

Apr 20, 2012 -- 12:28PM, BDboy wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:09PM, Roodog wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:34PM, BDboy wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 1:01PM, Roodog wrote:


If not a friend, then as an enemy who is willing to wait 1000 years to whip the Israelis.




 


>>>>>>> Saudi Arabia has been working with USA and Israel for decades. During 80's the whole "Mujahideen movement" was one of the product of that "Team work". The Talebans came out of those "Muhahideens" of the 80's.


Since Israeli policies are disliked by common people, Saudis work covertly with Israel in many areas. Also Israel is known to help and work with many ME dictatorships. It is nothing new.


Saudis also made few attempts to broker peace between Palestinians and Israelis. King Abduallah lead all arabs nations and gave a good proposal but Israel refused it.


I do not think Al- Saud administration want to wipe out Israel.


Maybe idiots at Fox News do not understand the difference between Iranians and Saudi Arabians. They ALSO forget that, one of the owners of Fox network (Second largest shares after Murdock!) is a Saudi citizen (A Saudi prince and well known investor!) as well.


Despite some short comings Saudis have been most "Reliable" allies of the USA since IKE was the president.


Guess it's never too late to learn things. ........





My point is that no Muslim State will  ever have genuinely good diplomatic relations with Israel. The Muslim world runs from Algeria to Bangladesh with only India and Israel breaking their geographic succession of countries that spans the Old World.




 


>>>>>>> The "Muslim world" actually runs all the way to Indonesia. There is a large province in China with a lot of Muslim population.


Since Israel did not even exist (After Biblical time) for very long in modern times, we are not there to say they will never be recognized.


For example, Turkey had excellent relationship with Israel for many decades. Since IDF killed some Turkish citizens (And an American one) in the high seas, it is a little cool now but for the longest time it was no less than excellent. From defense to political idealogy they worked as a team.


So your "Theory" is not based on ground reality. Even USA did not have "Great" relations with the Jews during holocaust but later that changed. So if you base your comments on facts, I would say anything is possible when our intentions are good.




 




You probably don't even hear yourself talk.  You said "Turkey had excellent relationship with Israel for many decades." speaking of a political relationship with Israel and then compared it with "Even USA did not have "Great" relations with the Jews during holocaust".  Even you cannot admit that there isn't a good Muslim relationship with JEWS, even with Turkey.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 1:46PM #18
BDboy
Posts: 4,510

Apr 20, 2012 -- 12:36PM, browbeaten wrote:


Apr 20, 2012 -- 12:28PM, BDboy wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:09PM, Roodog wrote:


Apr 17, 2012 -- 3:34PM, BDboy wrote:


Apr 16, 2012 -- 1:01PM, Roodog wrote:


If not a friend, then as an enemy who is willing to wait 1000 years to whip the Israelis.




 


>>>>>>> Saudi Arabia has been working with USA and Israel for decades. During 80's the whole "Mujahideen movement" was one of the product of that "Team work". The Talebans came out of those "Muhahideens" of the 80's.


Since Israeli policies are disliked by common people, Saudis work covertly with Israel in many areas. Also Israel is known to help and work with many ME dictatorships. It is nothing new.


Saudis also made few attempts to broker peace between Palestinians and Israelis. King Abduallah lead all arabs nations and gave a good proposal but Israel refused it.


I do not think Al- Saud administration want to wipe out Israel.


Maybe idiots at Fox News do not understand the difference between Iranians and Saudi Arabians. They ALSO forget that, one of the owners of Fox network (Second largest shares after Murdock!) is a Saudi citizen (A Saudi prince and well known investor!) as well.


Despite some short comings Saudis have been most "Reliable" allies of the USA since IKE was the president.


Guess it's never too late to learn things. ........





My point is that no Muslim State will  ever have genuinely good diplomatic relations with Israel. The Muslim world runs from Algeria to Bangladesh with only India and Israel breaking their geographic succession of countries that spans the Old World.




 


>>>>>>> The "Muslim world" actually runs all the way to Indonesia. There is a large province in China with a lot of Muslim population.


Since Israel did not even exist (After Biblical time) for very long in modern times, we are not there to say they will never be recognized.


For example, Turkey had excellent relationship with Israel for many decades. Since IDF killed some Turkish citizens (And an American one) in the high seas, it is a little cool now but for the longest time it was no less than excellent. From defense to political idealogy they worked as a team.


So your "Theory" is not based on ground reality. Even USA did not have "Great" relations with the Jews during holocaust but later that changed. So if you base your comments on facts, I would say anything is possible when our intentions are good.




 




You probably don't even hear yourself talk.  You said "Turkey had excellent relationship with Israel for many decades." speaking of a political relationship with Israel and then compared it with "Even USA did not have "Great" relations with the Jews during holocaust".  Even you cannot admit that there isn't a good Muslim relationship with JEWS, even with Turkey.





 


>>>>>>> I made important parts in BOLD red font, so it is easy for you to understand what I said. I only stated what is known to people who have knowledge of the region. So there is NOTHING to "Admit"....


RE-read it again!!


 


Here is another article to help out..


You are here: Home / Defense & Security News / Military cooperation was at heart of Turkey-Israel ties


 


Military cooperation was at heart of Turkey-Israel ties


 Source: www.defencetalk.com/military-cooperation...


Military cooperation was at heart of Turkey-Israel ties


 


By Agence France-Presse on Tuesday, June 1st, 2010


 


Ankara: Intense military cooperation was the driving force behind a decade-long boom in Turkish-Israeli ties, now in crisis over a deadly raid on aid ships bound for the Gaza Strip, among them Turkish vessels.


 


Relations have deteriorated since Israel's bombardment of the Gaza Strip in late 2008, and were poisoned in January when Turkey's envoy to Tel Aviv was given a public dressing down by Israel's deputy foreign minister in a row over a Turkish television series on the plight of the Palestinians.


 


NATO's sole predominantly Muslim member and the Jewish state signed a landmark military cooperation accord in 1996, much to the ire of Arab countries and Iran, marking the outset of what was called "a strategic partnership."


 


The pact eased Israel's isolation in a hostile Arab neighborhood, while Turkey gained an ally against Syria, then an arch-foe, and access to advanced military technology.


 


In the first major projects after the accord, Israeli companies were awarded contracts, worth some 700 million dollars, to modernize about 100 Turkish F-4 and F-5 fighter jets, and sold Turkey rockets and electronic equipment.


 


In 2002, Israeli Military Industries won a 668-million-dollar tender to upgrade 170 M60 tanks, the delivery of which was completed in April.


 


Another deal, worth 183 million dollars, involves the manufacture of 10 unmanned aircraft and related surveillance equipment for the Turkish army in a joint venture led by Israel Aerospace Industries.


 


The project, launched in 2005, has been delayed amid technical snags and political tensions.


 


Other deals have been concluded silently, with some defense experts estimating that in 2007 alone, military equipment accounted for 69 percent of the 2.6-billion-dollar bilateral trade volume.


 


Ankara, for its part, offered an opportunity for Israel's air force to train in a vast airspace unavailable in its own country, as part of joint drills in central Turkey.


 


The two armies have also jointly held naval exercises in the Mediterranean as well as search-and-rescue drills.


 


Turkey is also said to have allowed Israel access to its radars in monitoring Iranian and Iraqi air space, while other deals have involved the exchange of military students and expertise on chemical weapons protection.


 


In 1998, Turkey's alliance with Israel was seen as crucial to cajole Syria into expelling Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah Ocalan from his long-time safe haven in Damascus after Ankara threatened military action.


 


In 1999, Israeli soldiers were at the forefront of international efforts to rescue survivors from a devastating quake in northwestern Turkey, with one complex of prefabricated homes in the region named the "Israeli village."


 


Military cooperation was accompanied by a boost in economic ties and a flurry of cultural contacts.


 


Turkey offered to ship water to Israel to relieve its chronic shortage, although the project finally proved too costly and was dropped in 2006.................


............................................................ ...................... Click here to read the rest of the article.




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2 years ago  ::  Apr 20, 2012 - 2:34PM #19
browbeaten
Posts: 2,792

BDboy, you missed the whole point.  You are trying to prove that there is no inherent hatred toward Jews and you use Turkey's relations with Israel as proof.  You still have not been able to separate the idea of politics from down-right Jew hatred.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2012 - 5:14PM #20
KindredSai
Posts: 4,983

Apr 20, 2012 -- 2:34PM, browbeaten wrote:


BDboy, you missed the whole point.  You are trying to prove that there is no inherent hatred toward Jews and you use Turkey's relations with Israel as proof.  You still have not been able to separate the idea of politics from down-right Jew hatred.





I think there is more inherent hatred against Muslims and Christians by Zionists.


The Zionist occupation remains because the Palestinians are non-Jews, had they been Jews they would've been assimilated into the State of Israel.


Occupation is built on hatred, lest we forget.


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