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Switch to Forum Live View USDA Admits You May Be Eating Cloned Animal Meat
1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 10:34AM #11
Father_Oblivion
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 8,163

Apr 14, 2012 -- 1:37AM, fodaoson wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 10:58PM, Find1Answer wrote:


Monsanto has threatened to sue the entire state of Vermont because they were contemplating a bill that required GMO foods to be labeled.     Vermont has backed down while they consider the  threatened lawsuit.     What about state rights here?   where is the hue and cry?    Monsanto is scared shitless over labels.     I don't recollect electing Monsanto to office or approving the revolving door of corporate heads running our regulatory agencies but that is how it works.    Vilsack as far as I am concerned is the worst person in the world.    He deregulated round up ready seed stock and used Monsanto's own self serving studies for his creveat.       





“The US Secretary of Agriculture and head of the USDA”     USDA   United
States Department of Agriculture. The Head of  Department is the Secretary of whatever, Secretery of Defense is head of DOD, Secretary of  States is Head of State Department, etc.


 Redundant beginning sentence and a cloned propaganda repeated and  news.  We a have been   consuming artificially inseminated animals for over half a century and cloning is still to expensive for extensive beef production.  Cloned meat is as safe as any meat. 




Are you claiming the Secretary of the Treasury is also the head of the Federal Reserve or is also the Treasurer of the United States? Your criticism is quite hollow because many are not aware that the Secretary of Agriculture is the head of the USDA.


On what basis do you state your claim that cloned meat is safe?


What studies have been done that support your unqualified contention?


Is it irrelevant to you that this may violate the religious dietary restrictions of some people, unknowingly?


How do you know of the current costs of cloning? Would you care to provide a link to where that information can be found?

The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 10:45AM #12
Father_Oblivion
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 8,163

Apr 13, 2012 -- 11:30PM, teilhard wrote:


Apr 13, 2012 -- 10:53PM, Father_Oblivion wrote:


The US Secretary of Agriculture and head of the USDA, Tom Vilsack, admitted that the agency cannot determine whether or not cloned meat has been sold in the US. In response to their ignorance, the USDA has decided to tell the American public that cloned meat is safe for consumption. Vilsack remarked that cloned meat has no “substantial difference to actual animal meat, and therefore it is safe. Strange reasoning.


This development is interesting considering the USDA will not allow meat producers to distribute or sell cloned meat.

occupycorporatism.com/usda-admits-you-ma...




***We already have GMO vegetables that not only fail to provide genuine nutrition, but also may cause organ failure and damage to human DNA and rBGH that through its growth promotion has caused nine year old girls to have full breasts and increased agression among both boys and girls.

I simply don't know what to say to people who would allow this to happen to their own progeny in the name of making a freakin' dollar. I just don't know what to say. 




***This is NONSENSE ...




You have made a claim that my opinion as stated is 'nonsense' while ignoring the correlative nature of my opinion (which proves it is not 'nonsense' as there is a basis for study that could very well be valid and makes sense in regard to what is known, but is just something which you disagree with) and while providing no basis for that opinion whatsoever. Care to answer in more than one word, or do we just ignore you altogether?


The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 11:01AM #13
christzen
christzen
Posts: 4,750
 

www.livescience.com/2182-cloned-milk-meat-beef.html

 

 

 

 


www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18110949

 

 

 


www.thedailybeast.com/.../17/would-you-like-fries-with-your-clone.html


 

 

 


Most of the links back foda on the fact that using actual clones for the meat is too expensive.The idea seems to be cloning a high producing animal,and then using it to create a bloodline whose offspring will be high producing animals themselves,whether beef or milk.

 

(Don't know what is up with the Daily Beast link.Found the article by binging "Cloned beef safe")

 

 

 

 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 11:50AM #14
Father_Oblivion
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 8,163

Apr 14, 2012 -- 11:01AM, christzen wrote:


 

www.livescience.com/2182-cloned-milk-meat-beef.html

 

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18110949



www.thedailybeast.com/.../17/would-you-like-fries-with-your-clone.html


Most of the links back foda on the fact that using actual clones for the meat is too expensive.The idea seems to be cloning a high producing animal,and then using it to create a bloodline who offspring will be high producing animals themselves,whether beef or milk.






I recall when a flatscreen TV was expensive, and not very long ago. A 17" Samsung monitor was over $500- five years ago and is under $100- now. In a field where investment is quickly recouped, the methods of putting this into effect for direct production can have its associated costs reduced rather quickly once it is set in motion. The question is not the cost, it is the viability of the technology involved in producing it, which has already been established to be indeed viable (the existence of clones is the proof of viability).


I note that your first two links are both over four years old, so I question their relevance to the cost of cloning. Your third link did not work for me (the Daily Beast website said the article could not be found) so I entered "cloned meat" into the Daily Beast search engine and the newest article it came up with was also over four years old.


Cost and viability are actually of little concern and amount to mere quibbles in regard to the larger issue, which needed to be addressed before this was ever allowed to be introduced into the food supply in the first place. There has been no research whatsoever to determine if cloned meat is safe for human consumption. No studies are today available to determine this, and cloned meat has been in the food supply for over four years. 


We have been assured that rBGH (rBST) is perfectly safe, yet the EU, Japan and Canada all ban it specifically because of the danger it presents to both humans and to cows.



Based on the proposed label supplied by Monsanto, the increased risk of mastitis [inflammation of the udder] that may be associated with rBST has human health implications (antibiotic resistance in farm-borne human pathogens)


“BST-induced mastitis is harder to treat than naturally occurring mastitis and duration of treatment is longer due to higher incidence of infection with S. aureus… There is a one third higher incidence of antibiotic resistant bacteria. BST use increases the amounts of drugs in general to treat the various adverse effects it causes in cattle.”


rBST (NUTRILAC) Gaps Analysis Report.” Report of the rBST Internal Review Team, Health Protection Branch, Health Canada.. April 21, 1998.





“The public health and food safety aspects of mastitis in dairy cows are exclusively associated with the potential problems of side effects from using antimicrobials in the treatment or prevention of such cases. Treatment of clinical mastitis cases with antimicrobials is not limited to those cases, which may be classified as severe…, also, milk clinical cases are often treated with local application of antimicrobials… Even cases of sub-clinical mastitis are sometimes treated with antimicro-bials…”


“The public health reasons for limiting as far as possible the use of antimicrobials in dairy cows are the risk of: an in-creased incidence of allergic reactions from drugs and their metabolites in consumers of milk and dairy products; an in-creased selection of bacteria resistant to antimicrobials.”


“European Commission. ‚Report on Public Health Aspects of the Use of Bovine Somatotrophin.” 15-16 March 1999.




And these are just the proven problems. The ones I cited cannot be proven currently, not because there is no evidence, but because in Canada, Japan and the EU there are no subjects to test and in the US regulations denying use of rBGH labeling makes it impossible to determine who has consumed it and who has not conclusively, other than the physical and behavioral changes I have noted.


The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 12:51PM #15
Find1Answer
Find1Answer
Posts: 6,304

The studies used for deregulation in all the regulatory agencies in all aspects have become the norm and are industry supplied studies.   Independant study is nearly worthless to the agencies but are a worth to the consumer if they are interested.     Vermont and California are finding that Monsanto will sue them if labels are used so screw the consumer.   It has come to the point that outside studies are dismissed in the long run.  doesn't matter what field,  you are either an rabid environmentalist or a leftist or some other form of ridicule.  Zero long term planning all short term gain for industry.


The bees are being decimated because of pesticides that have evolved to the point that they are systemic in nature and the flowers that bloom are full of the stuff,  but industry studies do not even acknowledge this.   There are studies that pigs in India that have been fed round up ready soy and corn over the last 10+ years are developing stomach cancers and are experiencing high rates of reproduction problems,  but industry does not acknowledge this or even address it so deregulation follows.     Round up ready alfalfa is not even necessary because alfalfa is a perennial crop that over shades any weeds yet Vilsack recently gave it the go ahead.   Round up produces superweeds and changes the molecular structure of soils.   They have reintroduced DDT an incredient of Agent orange and they are given the go ahead.       as an aside  KBear brought up the past administration which is not the the issue being discussed although they were just another step in the progression to greenlight industry's agenda.   It is the Obama administration that has torn down the last few barriers on this industry supported, outside studies dismissed, synthetic alteration of food as nature intended.


It used to be if your choice to only consume organic foods but folks are losing the right to do so with cross polination  and the fouling of the soils,  acid rains and whatever chemical unholy assault on real food we have going on in this country.    I guess you would have to move to some other country where this stuff is banned in order to eat in a healthy manner.


These over reaches are destroying the organic industry,   they are even destroying conventional farming in this country.

and for further clarification I am not protecting Obama and blaming Bush.  The entire political process is nothing more than a boondoggle and pay for play.   Not only has it been going on for a long time but has achieved epic levels and will get worse with each succeeding presidency.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 1:23PM #16
christzen
christzen
Posts: 4,750

FO,


 


Sorry,I didn't complete my answer.The nonworking link sidetracked me and then I headed out the door to start prepping my rent house for sale before finishing my thought.(Eating lunch and having an adult beverage now:)  )


 


I should have followed up by saying I do not agree with BMO foods or the cloning of food animals,for 2 reasons.


 


First,all such foods are or will be copyrighted.Companies don't spend millions developing them without protecting their financial investment.This obviously puts the food supply in the hands of a greedy and profit minded few if and when it becomes the norm.Even raising your own food could become illegal.Seeds from bio engineered plants are now the property of the seed companies,and those who buy the seeds cannot use the next generation of seeds produced by that crop to grow another crop the next year.Even the seeds produced as a result of raising the crop are the copyrighted property of the seed company.It stands to reason from this that the offspring of cloned and copyrighted animals will be the property of the cloning company and not the owner of the animal.This effectively makes it illegal for you to raise your own food if you are using bio engineered materials to grow subsequent generations of crops or animals.And these companies are also very good at buying up competition and shelving those products to make their product the only one available to you,properly copyright protected,of course.See Monsanto for examples of this.


 


Second,as you have said,there is not really much way to conclusively prove the products safe.While I suspect cloned animals would be fine,I am one of the "better safe than sorry" types on this,especially after things like mad cow disease.(Which is actually a disease rather than a genetic modification,but just shows what unintended results can happen when humans mess with things.)There simply is no way to know that some genetic modification might not cause some problems.It will only become apparent after large numbers of people get sick and give scientists some kind of evidence to trace back to the source,if it ever happens.But we simply don't have the technological capability to know that it won't happen.Messing with Mother Nature  is rarely a good thing.


 


But I don't think we will see cattle made in a lab go straight from lab to grocery store.It will never be economically feasible to make every cow we eat in a lab.What will happen is a bull with desirable genes will be cloned and put into pasture to service 100 cows who have also been cloned from a genetically desirable cow,and then we will harvest their offspring for food.


 


Living in a technological world can be a bitch.We also give our kids cell phones to use even though their is some evidence that they can cause brain tumors.Go figure.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 1:25PM #17
fodaoson
fodaoson
Posts: 10,064

In the US government, Departments are Cabinet  and Sub-cabinet  agencies  and are headed by Secretaries  i.e. Department of Defense: Secretary of Defense : Sub Departments, Department of  the Army, Secretary of the Army,  Department  of the Navy -Secretary of the Navy , etc, In the Federal Government   Department  -Secretary  


The Federal Reserve is a semi-autonomous agency, not a Department.  The Treasury Department has a Secretary of the Treasury as Head


 For costs of cloning :www.forbes.com/2001/11/26/1126cloning.ht...


www.sustainabletable.org/issues/cloning/


For Safety of Cloned meat/vegetables.


www.redorbit.com/news/health/1956850/clo...


I worked for a Major research University and read several research papers a week for Graduate students. The College of Agriculture is the largest  college and research is a large part of a Major University. I have read several dissertations and research  analysis  over the past 12 years about cloning, food production, food safety and possible problems. Cloning produces genetically  identical animals and  vegetables .    

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 4:40PM #18
ted08721
ted08721
Posts: 3,440

Genetically Modified Foods: A Short Introduction

HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE

The four main global multinational corporations responsible for the trillion dollar GM global agribusiness are of course


Here are some career moves of just a few top Monsanto execs in recent years:


no hormones in commercial dairy products need ever be labelled

In the early 90s when it was uncertain how the biotech industry was going to unfold, the corporations were still naive enough to think that they actually had to study how animals would react to GM food, since it was being released on the human population. So they assigned one of the leading research scientists in the UK to create a model for testing GM food on animals – Dr Arpad Pusztai. He began feeding lab rats GM potatoes and carefully recording the results. After 110 days, he found that almost all of them exhibited adverse effects, including:


— decreased size of heart, brain, reproductives
— damaged immune system – white cells
— thymus and spleen damage
— enlarged intestines pancreas
— precancerous changes in stomach and gut



To read the whole article go to link below
www.thedoctorwithin.com...ed-foods-alert...


 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 10:57PM #19
teilhard
teilhard
Posts: 42,714

It's nothing short of astonishing that there is ANYONE left Alive in North America, eh ... ???


Apr 14, 2012 -- 4:40PM, ted08721 wrote:


Genetically Modified Foods: A Short Introduction

HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE

The four main global multinational corporations responsible for the trillion dollar GM global agribusiness are of course


Here are some career moves of just a few top Monsanto execs in recent years:


no hormones in commercial dairy products need ever be labelled

In the early 90s when it was uncertain how the biotech industry was going to unfold, the corporations were still naive enough to think that they actually had to study how animals would react to GM food, since it was being released on the human population. So they assigned one of the leading research scientists in the UK to create a model for testing GM food on animals – Dr Arpad Pusztai. He began feeding lab rats GM potatoes and carefully recording the results. After 110 days, he found that almost all of them exhibited adverse effects, including:


— decreased size of heart, brain, reproductives
— damaged immune system – white cells
— thymus and spleen damage
— enlarged intestines pancreas
— precancerous changes in stomach and gut



To read the whole article go to link below
www.thedoctorwithin.com...ed-foods-alert...


 
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 14, 2012 - 11:55PM #20
ted08721
ted08721
Posts: 3,440

It can take decades to develope cancer from smoking, radiation poisoning, decades of eating to develope heart disease,
We may not know what the effects are from these modified foods for many decades.

But it is not only any ill effects we have to worry about it is that we are going to have food that can only be supply by several international giant corporations who will be the only ones to have seeds that will grow but will be sterile so we have to keep going back to these companies for seeds.
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