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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 6:29PM #11
Find1Answer
Posts: 7,278

Lose the cap

Bush's "de-Bathification program" eliminated all vestiges of Sunni power in Iraqi society and set the stage for the Sunni insurrection against American occupation and the new Shiite-led government. Bush disbanded the entire Sunni-dominated Iraqi Army and bureaucracy. He didn't change it. He didn't make it more inclusive of Shiites and Kurds. He just disbanded it. It is no accident that two of the top commanders of today's ISIL are former commanders in the Saddam-era Iraqi military.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 6:51PM #12
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,245

Apr 11, 2012 -- 6:29PM, Find1Answer wrote:


Lose the cap





The cap is both on tax and benefits, if you lose the cap then you're also increasing the amount of benefits going out (i.e., the cap of $106,800 also means that they don't get benefits for anything more than that). Unless of course you're suggesting that we lose the cap when it comes to the tax, but keep the cap on benefits, which isn't entirely fair.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 7:17PM #13
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

The financial conditions of the Social Security and Medicare programs remain challenging. Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative modifications if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided.


...
Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.


You have it there, Mr. Tenac, from the horse's mouth -- the trustees of Social Security and Medicare. This is from a synopsis they prepared, available at


www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html


What I got out of this report is that Medicare is in worse trouble than Social Security and will need major repairs, such as deep-sixing the current part D big pharma payoff and re-writing that booger from scratch.


Social Security's long-term health turns on the people (voters) firing the current Congress and getting one willing to raise the tax cap slightly when it's necessary, and that turns on the larger issue of getting a Congress willing to fully fund government operations, because you can't write checks for X amount and then collect revenue sufficient to cover 80% of what you're spending without going into debt.


Of course, that works out great if your objective is to sink quickly into deep debt, and then start creeching and crying "Omigod, look at all these goddam debts! We're going to have to make deep cuts in social programs!"


Or you could fund the government to the same tune as you're writing its checks. Ever think about that? Or get rid of a war or two. Ever think of that? Or how about auctioning off the empire?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 8:17PM #14
aarroottoonn
Posts: 3,128

Apr 11, 2012 -- 4:58PM, catboxer wrote:


It doesn't need fixing. It's completely solvent through 2037, and the solvency could be extended indefintely through the simple expedient of raising the cap.


Rule #1 -- If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Republican motives for tweaking this sound program are not the ones they claim.




The first is clearly false. We already spend more in SS per year than we take in. The idea of a trust fund has been a myth for decades. Raising the cap doesn't fix the problem, unless one accepts that you increase the cap, but keep benefits the same, in other words, a massive tax increase, FOR YOUR ENTIRE LIFE!


As to rule one, it is broken, and has been for a long time. This hasn't exactly been a secret. Good ole Bill Clinton ran on fixing the problem back in 1992.


Republican motives consist of reining in a broken program that cannot be continued without swamping our nation. Minor fixes now, or cram downs, ala Greece, very, very shortly. Let the people choose.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 8:37PM #15
TENAC
Posts: 26,131

Apr 11, 2012 -- 7:17PM, catboxer wrote:


The financial conditions of the Social Security and Medicare programs remain challenging. Projected long-run program costs for both Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable under currently scheduled financing, and will require legislative modifications if disruptive consequences for beneficiaries and taxpayers are to be avoided.


...
Social Security expenditures exceeded the program’s non-interest income in 2010 for the first time since 1983. The $49 billion deficit last year (excluding interest income) and $46 billion projected deficit in 2011 are in large part due to the weakened economy and to downward income adjustments that correct for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink to about $20 billion for years 2012-2014 as the economy strengthens. After 2014, cash deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.


You have it there, Mr. Tenac, from the horse's mouth -- the trustees of Social Security and Medicare. This is from a synopsis they prepared, available at


www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html


What I got out of this report is that Medicare is in worse trouble than Social Security and will need major repairs, such as deep-sixing the current part D big pharma payoff and re-writing that booger from scratch.


Social Security's long-term health turns on the people (voters) firing the current Congress and getting one willing to raise the tax cap slightly when it's necessary, and that turns on the larger issue of getting a Congress willing to fully fund government operations, because you can't write checks for X amount and then collect revenue sufficient to cover 80% of what you're spending without going into debt.


Of course, that works out great if your objective is to sink quickly into deep debt, and then start creeching and crying "Omigod, look at all these goddam debts! We're going to have to make deep cuts in social programs!"


Or you could fund the government to the same tune as you're writing its checks. Ever think about that? Or get rid of a war or two. Ever think of that? Or how about auctioning off the empire?




Cat, I honestly cant find anything about that report to feel like SS/Medicare is anywhere near solvent.


You have govt appointed trustees basing a solvent SS/Med program on insufficient resources while counting on rosey economic senarios (obama has yet to produce a budget without deficits).


Read the entire last paragraph:


After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.



Redeemed assets from where?  The trustees are counting the IOUs now sitting in the trust fund.  The IOUs are backed by nothing.  Air.  But we are going to redeem them how?  Just keep the printing presses rolling?


The trustee report is based on sound accounting, but you are dealing with a liberal federal govt that acts upon anything except generally accepted accounting principles. 


Its kind of like cheating at golf.  You can be a scratch golfer until somenone actually starts recording the score. 


Then everyone knows, and everyone will know this too.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:32PM #16
Bodean
Posts: 9,503

Apr 11, 2012 -- 7:17PM, catboxer wrote:


Through 2022, the annual cash deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets from the General Fund of the Treasury. Because these redemptions will be less than interest earnings, trust fund balances will continue to grow. After 2022, trust fund assets will be redeemed in amounts that exceed interest earnings until trust fund reserves are exhausted in 2036, one year earlier than was projected last year. Thereafter, tax income would be sufficient to pay only about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through 2085.


You have it there, Mr. Tenac, from the horse's mouth -- the trustees of Social Security and Medicare. This is from a synopsis they prepared, available at


www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html


 





TENAC has already alluded to this, but he left off the first part of the Paragraph that tells the story.  I bolded the important part, especially the BLUE part.


The General Fund of the Treasury is currently running a Trillion Dollar Deficit.  While lying cheating politicians would like for you and everyone else to think that it will balance sometime after 2024, this is a lie, and they know it. .. that is everyone who is saying leave it alone knows the general fund will not cover the SSTRust liabilities.  Therefore .. CAT .. there is NO MONEY from which to pay back the trust.  Put another way, the Government is going to have to Borrow Money from outside lenders in order to pay off internal debt.  The result is that internal debt, which is nothing more than numbers on a book, like if you had a second checking account that was owed by your other checking account, will be transferred into REAL DEBT .. the kind that the Government will have no choice to pay, or else file for bankruptcy.


The advocates of leaving the system alone are the ones "kicking the can" down to future generations.  This is one of my pet peeves that I've been jumping up and down on for the last few years.  This is SICK!!  It is selfish, self-centered, entitlement minded at its worst!  Give me mine now, and let the future generations suffer for my indulgence.


Do the numbers Cat ... very few people pay in as much as they receive from either system, SS or Medicare.  Both systems were designed in a time when you died before you collected all you had paid in.  But thanks to the evil Pharmaceutical Co.s, people are living longer, even thought they are living less healthy lifestyles.  The result, there investments into the system are not covering what they are taking out of it.


I wish we could say it's not broke .. .but it's been broke for over 30 years.  The Democrats under Reagan raised the cap ... and it's been being raised ever since.  There are people in Washington who just do not have the SPINE to govern, to do what is right, even if what they do is the unpopular thing to do for their constituents. .... like .. reform S.S. and Medicare.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:42PM #17
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

huh?


I did do the numbers, and came to the startling conclusion that we need to cut expenditure and increase revenue.


As I always say, we could start by opting out of a war of choice or two. I expect another defeaning silence in response to that.


Also, too, the Buffett rule.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:50PM #18
Bodean
Posts: 9,503

Apr 11, 2012 -- 10:42PM, catboxer wrote:


huh?


I did do the numbers, and came to the startling conclusion that we need to cut expenditure and increase revenue.


As I always say, we could start by opting out of a war of choice or two. I expect another defeaning silence in response to that.


Also, too, the Buffett rule.





Wrong numbers cat. .. I was referring to the amount an individual pays in, vs the amount they receive.


Sure .. I'm all for opting out of wars .. but that is not what ran the debt up so high.  But, it's a good place to start with regards to avoiding future debt.


The Buffett Rule ...... you mean ... the One where Buffett would love the Government to take more of his money, but, he's too damn selfish to just write the check??  The ONE where Buffett took advantage of every tax credit and deduction he could find so he wouldn't have to pay more?Ain't nobody preventing Buffett from paying more. ... or Gates .. .or Soros ... or the Koch Bros [who are the only two Conservatives in the Top 20 richest people in America].


I say .. go buffett .. and while your writing that check to uncle sam ... write me one for a few 100 grand.  I don't need much, just a little.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:53PM #19
TENAC
Posts: 26,131

Apr 11, 2012 -- 10:42PM, catboxer wrote:


huh?


I did do the numbers, and came to the startling conclusion that we need to cut expenditure and increase revenue.


As I always say, we could start by opting out of a war of choice or two. I expect another defeaning silence in response to that.


Also, too, the Buffett rule.




The Buffet rule!?  Pfffffffffffffffffffffft!!!


On its best projection it will give you maybe $50 billion in a given year.


obamacare is already nearly twice the projection as it unfolds.  And it is no where near finished unfolding.  And we are going to go Medicare for everybody and add 40 million people to it?


The acuraries are only giving out what they are given.  Garbage in (literally) garbage out.


obama is keeping his war going.  We needed to be out of there long ago.  Even if we do, you trust this (or any) federal govt to do the right thing and stop spending or pay down some debt?  Ha!


Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 10:55PM #20
TENAC
Posts: 26,131

Apr 11, 2012 -- 10:50PM, Bodean wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 10:42PM, catboxer wrote:


huh?


I did do the numbers, and came to the startling conclusion that we need to cut expenditure and increase revenue.


As I always say, we could start by opting out of a war of choice or two. I expect another defeaning silence in response to that.


Also, too, the Buffett rule.





Wrong numbers cat. .. I was referring to the amount an individual pays in, vs the amount they receive.


Sure .. I'm all for opting out of wars .. but that is not what ran the debt up so high.  But, it's a good place to start with regards to avoiding future debt.


The Buffett Rule ...... you mean ... the One where Buffett would love the Government to take more of his money, but, he's too damn selfish to just write the check??  The ONE where Buffett took advantage of every tax credit and deduction he could find so he wouldn't have to pay more?Ain't nobody preventing Buffett from paying more. ... or Gates .. .or Soros ... or the Koch Bros [who are the only two Conservatives in the Top 20 richest people in America].


I say .. go buffett .. and while your writing that check to uncle sam ... write me one for a few 100 grand.  I don't need much, just a little.




lol....the funniest thing about the buffet rule, it wont touch him.  He will still pay the same.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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