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Switch to Forum Live View DANGEROUS SITUATION IN EGYPT.
2 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2012 - 8:08AM #1
tomjensen
Posts: 6

I would like to share a letter on the Internet from egypt. I have a Christian website for Christian networking, and there are continuously updates about terrible events in egypt. I have promised the writer that she is anonymous, but she hopes that the world is about to react, the situation is critical, but there is no focus on the problem, because so much is happening in the world right now.


Dear Tom
 What happened during the elections was that the Muslims brotherhood pressured the simple Muslim families in order to vote for the... Paid them money, told them in mosques that supporting the liberal party is like wanting the Christians to take over the country, and told them that if they don't vote for the Muslim brotherhood they are doomed for hell. See, 60 % of the Egyptian community is illiterate but they are the majority and they tend to believe anything they are told if referenced from the Quran. I also heard from several people that they were piling up tons of voting papers right after the elections and burning them! To others watching from the outside, we seemed to have a real democratic procedure here... But we didn't. Also, the Muslim brotherhood (MB) and the Salafists succeeded in changing the attitude of the simple Muslim families to turn against the Christians. We are today considered by most of them strangers in our own country. If one Muslim testifies (in truth or lie) against any christian, that Christian is doomed! That's how things are here in Egypt today. What is worse, Muslims kidnap teenage girls and young women, rape them, and force them into becoming Muslims. If they refuse, they are beaten up and tortured until they give in or until the die. It's not much different than the persecution at the time of the Romans except that those who have money are very much able to buy way out. Unfortunately, only those who live here experience this and know much more about it than most people who live in the developed world. Nonetheless, I am glad that the truth is starting to spread... Even if slowly.
Please pray for christians here. Thanks. God bless you all

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2012 - 6:18PM #2
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

This new thread was moved from US News & Politics. It may not be 100% right for this forum. We'll see based on replies.


Rangerken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 09, 2012 - 7:31PM #3
tomjensen
Posts: 6

Thank you. my mistake

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 11:05AM #4
LeahOne
Posts: 16,314

Right now the 'cease-fire' for Syria seems to have been demolished by the Syrian regime (big surprise, right?) - and a hundred Syrian civilians a day are being murdered over there.


That *does* seem rather more 'immediate' than what your correspondant describes in Egypt, I acknowledge.


But if you look at this board, the Syrian situation is being entirely ignored in favor of wrangling over whether that virago Helen Thomas is 'actually' a bigot.  And a rather ridiculous discussion about some  purported administrative (ie, non-violent/technical/'paperworkl') 'oppression' of Christians by the Israeli government.  Which, btw, is a palpably false accusation.


So you can see, Tom, that what most people here want to "discuss" is how terrible it is that there even IS a State of Israel....the lives of Egyptian Christians are only affected, we've been informed, because the poor confused Muslims of Egypt are so resentful of 'European and American' Jews in Israel oppressing their poor Palestinian brethren - they are now lashing out at their Christian neighbors because *some* Christians support the State of Israel.


Others of us have tried to spotlight the troubles of Egyptian Christians - and have been told we were only doing it to distract attention from the evil actions of illegal Israeli settlers, etc.


Nobody has EVER suggested that American Christians should be pressuring our government to stand up for the Christian minority in Egypt or elsewhere : ((


Since I'm not a Christian, I don't feel I should be discussing what American Christians 'should' be doing.  I don't know if there's a difference between being one of 14 million, and one of one billion plus - perhaps that's it?  Perhaps there is even some sectarian bias - I'd hate to think so, and cringe to even contemplate it.


Don't give up, Tom - it's been a holiday weekend, and I think a lot of people are on vacation around here.  : ))  


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 11:40AM #5
LeahOne
Posts: 16,314

Tom, I am trying to assess the information your correspondant has given you - but I have so very little background information to place it in context.


We have seen some truly heinous accusations posted here against Israelis/Zionists/Jews - and I just can't uncritically accept such accusations against Muslims.


That isn't 'not caring':  it's wanting to not react before I have more info and more reliable info.  You can read for yourself here how some are convinced, for example, that the Syrian opposition are 'all outsiders' (I guess they don't remember how we Americans had NA allies in the Revolutionary War AND a French fleet, AND some other 'foreign aid'?)


And if you recall, just after Iraq invaded Kuwait, there was that story about babies taken off respirators and left in the Kuwaiti hospitals to die?  That one turned out to be false....


At the same time:  I understand that it adds to the misery to realize that people don't believe you, the poor woman who wrote to you.


 


But let's just say that the situation of Egyptian Christians is bad and getting worse - what is it that you think people might do to help?  Has this lady given you any suggestions?


My inclination as an American who's comfortably middle-class, is to throw money at it.  IE, to contribute funds to a program to bring some of these people to the US and integrate them into our society.  It's true we have some economic problems of our own - but from what I've seen of people running to the US because someone is trying to kill them, they make really dedicated and productive fellow citizens.  Like my own grandparents and millions of others.


Where are there Coptic communities which could integrate these people?  Are there nations aside from the US where the culture is already represented?   What is really needed is a coordinated multinational effort to rescue all who want to leave AND a diplomatic effort to pressure the Egyptian Government to oppose this oppression.  But since Egypt is in flux, that may simply not be possible.....

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 11:59PM #6
tomjensen
Posts: 6

I believe that focus and publicity, is the solution.
All I see in the news right now, is syria, and a Danish / Iranian who is on hunger strike in Bahrain. This is important news, but we have the opportunity to guide Egypt in the right direction by diplomacy, counseling, and through media. Maybe we then can avoid that it becomes an Islamic state with sharia law, with the lack of human rights, torture, terrorist training camps, etc. then it is almost impossible to solve the problem without war as the last option.


I have not written about America must do something, but international diplomatic pressure. 


I come from Denmark, so there is probably some spelling mistakes, but it is the advantage of living in a small country (we have to learn many languages to survive). there is extreme pressure on Europe's borders, because there are so many refugees.
A large part of Greece's economic problem is that it is overrun by refugees and the same problem in Italy and Spain, which has reached its limits.
In Denmark, all refugees could come to Denmark, get social assistance for life(3000 $ per. Month) a full pension when they were retirednursing home free hospitals and education as everyone else in Denmark, and when they automatically were Danish citizens, they could invite the rest of their family and they got the same, but that almost destroyed our own social welfare, until some muhammed drawings, stopped the flood of refugees, and we instead became targets for terrorists. 


I have nothing against Muslims, but I have something against imams and priests who exploit ignorant people, and threatens about hell if they do not vote for their party, many of my best friends are Muslims, and we can talk about religion, politics and other sensitive topics, without problems. 


I have in the past worked many years for the Red Cross and was posted in several Muslim countries and camps. later for national Red Cross with refugees to Denmark, until I started my own company. 


I started the site as a project because I have had a knee surgery, and forced to stay on the couch for 4 months, and would be bored to death, if I had nothing to do. But I was shocked by the emails that come from Egypt without you hear about it in the news.
I have contact with many people in Egypt and they all say the same thing, and we have a unique opportunity to stop this before it becomes a big problem.
I have contacted some friends who are journalists and they will bring article and then see how the reaction is, as they say "we can only bring news that the viewers want to see".

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 12:08AM #7
LeahOne
Posts: 16,314

Tom, if a person who speaks 2 languages is 'bilingual' and one who speaks 3 is 'trilingual' - what do we call the person who only speaks *one* language?


 


 


 


"American"  : ((

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 12:26AM #8
tomjensen
Posts: 6

it was only to explain my bad spelling.
not to denigrate. Sorry. :-(
I wish I was born in an English speaking country.
at school we had to learn 3-5 different languages, and of course you can not ask the French to speak anything else but French :-)


but my opinion is that many citizens in large countries is a little ignorant,
because they are not forced to look beyond their own borders and
they have enough in their own backyard, and internal problems.
I'm almost been converted into believing that a world community is the only solution to the problems in the world. (never thought I would support it).
But democracy does not work if its citizens are ignorant, or let themselves be threatened by radical imams or raqdikale believers



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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 12:51AM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 16,314

Tom, thank you for letting us know more about your background.  I do not mean to sound mistrustful - but as I posted, there have been many inaccurate stories told : ((


I've heard how Scandinavian countries which have generous social support policies have been overwhelmed by immigrants : ((  I also remember something like 15 years or more ago, one of my husband's coworkers from the Netherlands who was talking about the high taxes in Holland to pay for all those programs, something like 50% of his income.  And he said there were other Dutch who chose not to work but live on the state support and called him a fool for working.....Don't know the answer to that problem, either - well, not for this board!


So I don't doubt what you've said - or think that you're being unfair or selfish to mention that situation.  I imagine that Denmark is also more homogeneous than the US by far, and that a large group of 'different' folk would be harder to integrate.  We've already got some of 'everyone' here, and pretty much always have... 


Yes, each country needs to find a balance between compassion and practicality.  And why should the Christians have to leave Egypt anyway???


The publicity is probably a good way to start.  The more reports there are, the more people *might* realize they could do something to help....


I agree with you about imams or ANY 'clergy' or 'leaders' who tell people such things about 'Hell' to control them : ((  


Oh, and THANK YOU! to the Danish people for the rescue-by-evacuation of my co-religionists who were your fellow citizens.   


 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 12:59AM #10
LeahOne
Posts: 16,314

Oh, no, no, no Tom!   :  ))   I didn't feel 'denigrated':  I was making a joke!!!  It's not all that true, anyway, as many of us Americans are 'hyphenated' (ie. 'pick-an-Ethnic'-American) and speak a little of 'the old country' language.  But we don't have a real geographic necessity to know another language or two.... you can drive  8 hours a day on the highways for a whole week, and you're still in the US.

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