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Switch to Forum Live View DANGEROUS SITUATION IN EGYPT.
3 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 1:09AM #11
LeahOne
Posts: 16,402

I agree!  Democracy cannot work unless people are fed and educated.  An empty belly will talk louder than any reason....


No, this isn't totally off topic - for your writer spoke of the illiterate and ignorant (they are NOT 'stupid'!) who can be conned by people who claim to lead them. 


The skill of 'critical thinking' is something which schools do not tend to teach below perhaps the high school level, the last few years before unviersity studies.  In a nation where most do not have 12 years of formal education, they do not learn how to evaluate information.


And of course any literal 'infallible' type view of Scripture (whichever Scripture it is!) only makes matters worse, for it poses 'Science' as an enemy of 'Religion' and 'Spirit'. 


I also tend ot agree that we will wind up as some kind of a worldwide federation - but I don't think pushing that before its time will work : ((  And I for sure don't think the current UN is anywhere near being a model for it!


It is very late here (New England), so I'm going to make this my last post.  You can always PM me if you want to talk about off-topic stuff : ))


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 1:34AM #12
tomjensen
Posts: 6

haha. Here you can drive an hour,, then you must switch languages.
Yes, our tax is 50%, but you get tax deduction if you contribute to charity, or buy a house etc. But instead we have free education, health care, pension,
if you get a baby, the state pays your salary to both parents in 9 months, so they can take time off from work, and gives you a check every 3 months for children things, until they reach 18 years, all these things give economic security and you can concentrate on the important things in life. 
I think it's okay, and a country must be judged on how it treats its poor. but it is exploited, and if a refugee arriving in the country with his wife and they have 8-9 children, the cost is $ 180,000 per year only for private household , plus the rest of the family will also be invited to the country, it is too much.


So also for economic reasons it is important that we support normal democracy,
and fight against dictatorship and extreme beliefs.
War must be the last option.
the woman was very afraid that some might know her identity, and it was just a letter among many. faith and the state must be separated if a democracy
must work, otherwise the most radical will always take over in poor countries



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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 5:50PM #13
tomjensen
Posts: 6

This is a follow up there is no doubt that Christians are being persecuted in Egypt, and the international community must react before it's too late, and diplomacy is no longer an option, I have promised her anonymity and share her messages,

Dear Tom
I've read this article today about a declaration from the Mufti in Saudi Arabia (the Mufti is like the Pope whom every muslim follow) and he said it was necessary to destroy all churches from the Arabian peninsula.... or all the Arabic speaking countries. This has never been out in the news here in Egypt and will never be declared out loud here in Egypt. What is happening is that the muslims here are targetting those who are poor and weak in faith first... killing them or abducting them in secret.

The other thing that has recently happened that is pretty interesting is as follows:
We have a law in Egypt that forbids any man with non-Egyptian parents (whether mother or father) to be elected for presidency. One of the Islamic radicals (and he is a very strong managed and has managed to increase the number of his followers from the muslims), Salah Hazem Abu Ismail, managed somehow to be on top of the list of the elected for Presidency. He is much worse from the Muslim Brotherhood.... He actually wants to eliminate the churches and the Christians altogether. Valid documents from the States came out that proved that this guy's mother was American. He denied it and actually went to the American embassy to try and get rid of the originals of these documents... but he failed. Despite all that, he somehow was able to get out of it, won the 'trial' to invalidate these documents and he did... in 1 WEEK!!! Can you believe it? Now, there is no doubt that he would be president. 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 6:50PM #14
LeahOne
Posts: 16,402

It is indeed a tragedy and a travesty that such violation of Egyptian law be allowed by the Egyptian courts : ((


Here in the US we had a man who would have been a wonderful president - he was a wonderful Governor of Illinois.  But as the first sentence shows you, he was forever barred from becoming the US President because he was not born a citizen of the US.  Altgeld was a veteran of the Civil War - he joined the Union Army at age 16 - and a true Midwestern Progressive.  He worked to improve labor conditions and to end child labor.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Peter_Altgeld  


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 16, 2012 - 7:01PM #15
LeahOne
Posts: 16,402

Tom, I'm going to take issue with ONE detail which your correspondant reports.  I have also seen the imam's call for destroying the churches in KSA.  Now I am neither a Muslim nor a Christian.  But it is my understanding from the Muslims I know, that their religion does not have any office which approaches the authority of the Papacy in any Catholic Christian faith. 


I do not mean to suggest your Egyptian lady is anything other than honestly mistaken on that!   And I do not fault her for such an innocent error.  She is quite terrified and everything seems terrible, I can understand that feeling.


I believe that the Imam is wrong and urging great evil - but I do not blame the religion of Islam for that man's evil.  Nor for the evil of any who follow such 'directions' as he would give. 


People have indeed used EVERY faith to justify good and to run to do evil:  it is in the individuals themselves.  We have seen from the Danish people that they did not fail to confront the evil of Nazi genocide.  And I will continue to pray that enough of the Egyptian Muslim people will refuse to allow injustice to tehir fellow citizens who happen to be Christian.


BUT, as another American once said "Praise the LORD - but pass the ammunition!" 


We also should be preparing to shelter and comfort as many Egyptian Christians as our individual communities can figure out how to help.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 11:22PM #16
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:08AM, LeahOne wrote:


Tom, if a person who speaks 2 languages is 'bilingual' and one who speaks 3 is 'trilingual' - what do we call the person who only speaks *one* language?


 


 


 


"American"  : ((




Leahone:

Many US citizens do a lousy job of speaking one language.


And remember that "American" also refers to Canadians and Latin Americans, many of whom are bilingual.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 11:43PM #17
LeahOne
Posts: 16,402

True dat.


Unfortunately, there isn't a word to denote people of the US only....  I'd use 'Yankees', but that might prove distressing to some of our less northerly fellow citizens, LOL!

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 2:45AM #18
Shusha
Posts: 4,635

Apr 17, 2012 -- 11:22PM, Roodog wrote:


Apr 11, 2012 -- 12:08AM, LeahOne wrote:


Tom, if a person who speaks 2 languages is 'bilingual' and one who speaks 3 is 'trilingual' - what do we call the person who only speaks *one* language?


 


 


 


"American"  : ((




Leahone:

Many US citizens do a lousy job of speaking one language.


And remember that "American" also refers to Canadians and Latin Americans, many of whom are bilingual.





Hey!  Who you callin' "American"?  We don't like that much up here.  :P

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 5:44PM #19
LeahOne
Posts: 16,402

www.aina.org/news/20120417135935.htm


AMSTERDAM -- A Lower House majority is demanding that Foreign Minister Uri Rosenthal call his Egyptian counterpart to order on the kidnapping of Coptic girls in Egypt (AINA 1-25-2012).


The demand is an initiative of small Christian party ChristenUnie's MP Joel Voordewind. He was alarmed by reports by public broadcaster EO saying that 1,500 Coptic girls have been kidnapped in the past 10 months. They are often forced to convert to Islam and undergo female circumcision.


According to Voordewind, the growing influence of Salafism in Egypt is being accompanied by serious human rights violations. "The girls are genitally mutilated and forced into marriage without the Egyptian government doing anything against it. This is unacceptable."


Voordewind is supported by the conservatives (VVD), Party for Freedom (PVV), Christian democrats (CDA), Socialist Party (SP), leftwing Greens (GroenLinks) and the smallest Christian party SGP. They want Rosenthal to address his Egyptian counterpart about the lax attitude of the authorities, as a result of which the perpetrators can freely go their way and are not brought to trial. Voordewind also wants the Netherlands and the EU to provide legal support to the parents affected.


As we can see from this news article, the Egyptian woman who wrote that letter to Tom is expressing a real concern about actual events happening around her.


I think that as people of conscience, we need to take a stand against this terrible oppression of women, of Christians, of Arabs - of human beings just like ourselves!!! 

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 7:34PM #20
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,223

Leah


I could not agree more. I hope everyone agrees. Forced conversion is wrong (but at least it can be undone) Forced female mutilation is wrong and permanent. The first just needs to be stopped, the second needs to be stopped and the people doing it need to be prosecuted for the criminals they are.

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