Apr 17, 2012 -- 5:31PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

BDBOY

For centuries Jews were an oppressed minority in Arab and Muslim lands. They were subject to many indignities which were supported by the Muslim apartheid laws known as Dhimmi.

The Jews were deported from the Arab countries because they wwere Jews and because Israel committed the "unforgivable sin" of surviving the attack of the invading Arab armies. The Arab governments and the Arab Muslim populations could not deal with it, so they evicted their Jewish populations. Some of us are very familiar with the process. It wasn't a new process, stealing the lands and possessions of Jews was something that the Arabs had been doing since they emerged from Arabia. Sad but true.  

>>>>>>>>> I don't think I have said anything out of line here.

I said Jews lived with Arabs RELATIVELY well. When You compare how Jews were treated in Europe, Russia and some of central Asia, Arabs are used to have Jews around.

There were inter-faith "Love marriages" common among both communities. I know one of my uncle's family had a Jewish connection there.

You have to compare with rest of the world. When Jews were in major trouble after 1492 in southern Europe, Arabs gave them shelter as well.

I mean the Irish and the Brits were neighbors and fought with each others as well. Guess there were some irritation between Jewish and Muslim communities time to time. But if you take a look at the big picture JEWS did not face wholesale threats from any Muslim nations UNTIL state of Israel started violence against local non-Jewish population. Relationship became quite bad since that time.

There are quite a bit of valid criticism of how "Modern" state of Israel treats local "Native" non-jews as well.

The "Land stealing" technology was "Perfected" by the state of Israel when it uses the army and arms (Often gifted by the USA!) to grab more land from Palestinians.

I never supported oppression or deny it. But when you make a comment try to understand the context as well. Over 1000 years ago Muslims "Allowed" Jews to worship in Jerusalem while they were banned by Christians for centuries. It happened AFTER Muslims took over the city of Jerusalem!!

There are loads of positive interactions between Jews and Muslims. Part of it is "Natural" because we are VERY close in rituals. We are both monotheistic faiths. Many Western Muslims even consume Kosher food while they reject other type of food.

Finally, Arabs are in a mess. Most of the countries were ruled by ruthless dictators who were often treated fellow Muslims in worst ways (Saddam and senior Al-Assad killed thousads of Muslims in one day). They fought against each other (Iran-Iraq war) which caused over a million lives. So when you consider everything in the ME, Muslims and Jews used to have cordial relations (Not perfect but good).

Apr 22, 2012 -- 6:43AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Quote:

'There are still many Iranian Jews living in Iran. I bet you once Israelis decides to attack Iran, it will be most difficult for those innocent Jews. That is why I firmly feel Israeli fnatical policies are the biggest threat to the state of Israel. Not the rock thowering teen agers of Gaza....'

I certainly hope Israel will do the right thing and get their people out of Iran in time.  

I for one am finding it necessary to wear hip-boots, it's gotten so deep.

So Dos considers Iranian Jews to be 'Israelis' and not Iranians.  Interesting.  So without actually ASKING a one of 25,000 people, Dos is *assuming* that for them, their religion trumps their nationality - in THEIR view. 

I understand the 'religion trumps nationality' being the view of the mullahs - but since when does a person decide such matters for others?

It's EXACTLY this kind of 'misunderstanding' which leads people to wonder if someone might have a 'bigotry' issue.....

Apr 22, 2012 -- 7:50AM, LeahOne wrote:

Apr 22, 2012 -- 6:43AM, Dostojevsky wrote:

Quote:

'There are still many Iranian Jews living in Iran. I bet you once Israelis decides to attack Iran, it will be most difficult for those innocent Jews. That is why I firmly feel Israeli fnatical policies are the biggest threat to the state of Israel. Not the rock thowering teen agers of Gaza....'

I certainly hope Israel will do the right thing and get their people out of Iran in time.  

I for one am finding it necessary to wear hip-boots, it's gotten so deep.

So Dos considers Iranian Jews to be 'Israelis' and not Iranians.  Interesting.  So without actually ASKING a one of 25,000 people, Dos is *assuming* that for them, their religion trumps their nationality - in THEIR view. 

I understand the 'religion trumps nationality' being the view of the mullahs - but since when does a person decide such matters for others?

It's EXACTLY this kind of 'misunderstanding' which leads people to wonder if someone might have a 'bigotry' issue.....

>>>>>>>>> You have a point Leah.

I guess it varies person to person. I have seen few Jewish-American members in B-net, who said they feel Israel is their "Actual" home. Another member said all Jews are exile unless they are living in "Greater Israel"!!

So you are right in pointing that, for a non-Jewish person, it is not polite to assume all Jews are "Stuck with Israel". However the other point of of view (Which says except Israeli Jews all are exile) is ALSO a prominent "Jewish point of view".

Now going back to the point. It is almost certain lives of Iranian Jews will be difficult (To day the least) if Israel wants to engage in violence/war with Iran.

Just like after 9-11 many millions of innocent civilian Muslims had to learn to embrace a "New reality" and a "New normal" as parts of their lives. Their lives were not the same since then.

Guess we have to wait and see how things work out for all parties....

Quote Leah:

'So Dos considers Iranian Jews to be 'Israelis' and not Iranians.  Interesting.  So without actually ASKING a one of 25,000 people, Dos is *assuming* that for them, their religion trumps their nationality - in THEIR view.'

- in response to:

'I certainly hope Israel will do the right thing  and get their people out of Iran on time'. post 43

Leah, are you saying that for Israel, Iranian Jews are not 'their' people?

You have to compare with rest of the world. When Jews were in major trouble after 1492 in southern Europe, Arabs gave them shelter as well.

Er, 'the Jews were in major trouble'???   Nice language there:  the FACT is the Spanish Crown imposed the death penalty on any Jew remaining in Spain.  That is attempted genocide, not simply 'major trouble'.  And there has never been any suggestion that the Jewish community in any way did something to 'provoke' this action. 

I mean the Irish and the Brits were neighbors and fought with each others as well.

I guess you'll have to wait for one of the Irish folks to come along and explain the kind of distorted filth that sentence represents.  A few phrases for you to look up and learn from:  'beyond the pale', 'boycott', and 'coffin ship'. 

It's good, though - I can see your grasp of history is fairly tenuous in more than jsut one area.  So that suggests ignorance, which is curable : ))

 Guess there were some irritation between Jewish and Muslim communities time to time.

Yeah, like the reason Maimonides moved from Spain to Egypt to being with..... 

But if you take a look at the big picture JEWS did not face wholesale threats from any Muslim nations UNTIL state of Israel started violence against local non-Jewish population. Relationship became quite bad since that time.

Damascus 1840:  Damascus 1929.  And those are NOT isolated incidents, just two of the larger ones.  We could also mention Hebron 1929.....  And ALL of that well before there ever was a State of Israel.

There are quite a bit of valid criticism of how "Modern" state of Israel treats local "Native" non-jews as well.

There absolutely is - but the accusations you keep repeating are not valid criticism.  After all, just being an Arab doesn't make one 'native' to the land.  Or else over 50
% of Jewish Israelis are 'native'  because they're Sephardi or Mizrachi.....  not counting the sabras.

The "Land stealing" technology was "Perfected" by the state of Israel when it uses the army and arms (Often gifted by the USA!) to grab more land from Palestinians.

Unsubstantiated allegations which include a none-too-subtle attack on the US as well, AND the unspoken insinuation that this is due to 'undue Jewish influence' - the lie about 'divided loyalties', etc.

I never supported oppression or deny it. But when you make a comment try to understand the context as well. Over 1000 years ago Muslims "Allowed" Jews to worship in Jerusalem while they were banned by Christians for centuries. It happened AFTER Muslims took over the city of Jerusalem!!

And today, Dr Zahi Hawass whores for HAMAS as does the Waqf, declaring the lie that no Jewish Temple ever stood on the Temple Mount.  That current obscenity doesn't invalidate the earlier decency of Muslim rulers.  But I suppose that the HAMAS whores will rewrite the history of a thousand years ago as well - unless the honest Muslims stop them.