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Switch to Forum Live View The Israeli-Palestinian Peace Thread
2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 8:55PM #41
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:45PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


 


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:16PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:14PM, JAstor wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:01PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Define "incremental."  Is that via popular vote?  And who is it who will get to "vote" on this new 1-s-s?



Good policy questions.  Your guess is as good as mine.  




Then those who advocate a one-state solution have given no reason why their’s would be the best solution for “everybody” else then.  Too bad.



It's called Piece, not Peace. If you can't annihilate them, try and get them to give it up piece by piece. 




That sounds a lot like Israel's current land grab policy.  If that's ok, then 1SS is just more of the same on a larger scale.




From what I've seen, we have two sides that are not giving an inch.  Hardly a recipe for a 1-s-s via peaceful. democratic means.


Also, I've yet to see a workable 1-s-s involving two very different cultures as the Palestinian and the Israel.  Most states like that are disfunctional at best.




Israel is already a conglomerate of different cultures.  It has its own disfunctionalities, as does any nation.  Canada, the US, South America's native people, and its invaders, etc.  Even Hawaii began as an invasion and take over by one culture over another that's become a blend of several.  Macro, micro, no nation on earth remains static.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 9:23PM #42
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,571

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:55PM, Miraj wrote:

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:45PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


 


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:16PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:14PM, JAstor wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:01PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Define "incremental."  Is that via popular vote?  And who is it who will get to "vote" on this new 1-s-s?



Good policy questions.  Your guess is as good as mine.  




Then those who advocate a one-state solution have given no reason why their’s would be the best solution for “everybody” else then.  Too bad.



It's called Piece, not Peace. If you can't annihilate them, try and get them to give it up piece by piece. 




That sounds a lot like Israel's current land grab policy.  If that's ok, then 1SS is just more of the same on a larger scale.




From what I've seen, we have two sides that are not giving an inch.  Hardly a recipe for a 1-s-s via peaceful. democratic means.


Also, I've yet to see a workable 1-s-s involving two very different cultures as the Palestinian and the Israel.  Most states like that are disfunctional at best.




Israel is already a conglomerate of different cultures.  It has its own disfunctionalities, as does any nation.  Canada, the US, South America's native people, and its invaders, etc.  Even Hawaii began as an invasion and take over by one culture over another that's become a blend of several.  Macro, micro, no nation on earth remains static.


If Israel is already a "conglomerate of cultures," then why do you suppose this 1-s-s is so opposed?  The current "conglomerate" does not appear to seek the demise of its current state.  It seems that if one culture is hell-bent to take out the other culture, then how is a 1-s-s to be successful?


The US and Canada both seems to have assimilated the minorities involved before it enfranchised them.  Except for a micro-minority of Ohana groups, whose membership numbers, pergaps, in the hundreds, none of the native Hawaiians are seeking the dissolution of the current relationship between the US and the Hawaiian State.  Likewise, there is a separatist movement in Quebec, but for the most part, the French and Indian descendants are not seeking to radically change the current Canadian unity.


The current PA - whether it be Fatah or Hamas - seek to remove ALL Jewish influences from Palestinian terriitory.  How does this "compute" in "everybody" getting to "stay" in a 1-s-s setup in Israel?

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2012 - 11:37PM #43
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Apr 5, 2012 -- 9:23PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


If Israel is already a "conglomerate of cultures," then why do you suppose this 1-s-s is so opposed?  The current "conglomerate" does not appear to seek the demise of its current state.  It seems that if one culture is hell-bent to take out the other culture, then how is a 1-s-s to be successful?


The US and Canada both seems to have assimilated the minorities involved before it enfranchised them.  Except for a micro-minority of Ohana groups, whose membership numbers, pergaps, in the hundreds, none of the native Hawaiians are seeking the dissolution of the current relationship between the US and the Hawaiian State.  Likewise, there is a separatist movement in Quebec, but for the most part, the French and Indian descendants are not seeking to radically change the current Canadian unity.


The current PA - whether it be Fatah or Hamas - seek to remove ALL Jewish influences from Palestinian terriitory.  How does this "compute" in "everybody" getting to "stay" in a 1-s-s setup in Israel?




The transitions in each example were not smooth nor tranquil.  Being hard to merge didn't stop the mergers from happening over time anyway.  The 1SS will create its own difficulties and successes, just like the creation of Israel has.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:24AM #44
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Here's another reason for the one state solution.


Hebron settlers threaten retaliation after Israeli police evict them


The tensions in Hebron, a mainly Arab city that's holy to both Muslims and Jews, test Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's willingness to expand settlement in the West Bank.


Israeli security forces swiftly evicted dozens of Jewish settlers from an illegally occupied building in this volatile West Bank city on Wednesday, ending a week-long standoff that had threatened to spill over into broader violence.


The raid caught the settlers off guard. Only a day earlier, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had moved to block the eviction order. Settler supporters in Netanyahu's hard-line government condemned the surprise raid, a key political ally threatened to quit the coalition and settler leaders vowed retaliation.


Continued at the link.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:49AM #45
sadiaali
Posts: 30

totally going unfair in the world me think the america is doing nd creating the dispulates in others countries....

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 1:26AM #46
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Apr 6, 2012 -- 12:49AM, sadiaali wrote:


totally going unfair in the world me think the america is doing nd creating the dispulates in others countries....




Welcome Sadiaali. Your English obviously is not fluent. That's OK and we can help you if you wish. What I think you meant to say in your post is this...


America is acting unfairly in the world, and is creating disputes in other countries.


I assume you also wish to say that the US is a cause of the Israel-Palestinian problem. Am I right?


You may send messages to me or another host, pehaps Miraj who is Muslim like you, in which you ask for help with your posts. We will be happy to help. Your opinion is welcome. Of course, you should expect others to disagree with you, while some will indeed agree with you.


Rangerken, Beliefnet Community wide Moderator

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 2:54AM #47
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:16PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:14PM, JAstor wrote:


If you can't annihilate them, try and get them to give it up piece by piece.



That sounds a lot like Israel's current land grab policy.



I think a pragmatic way of getting the conflict settled would be to propose that for each Jewish family settling on so-and-so many square metres in the West Bank, a Palestinian refugee family thus far being denied a 'right to return' is invited to settle on so-and-so many square metres inside undisputed Israeli territory.


Sounds fair to me. They could fund this family's house with Saudi money, if money is an issue.

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 8:43AM #48
JAstor
Posts: 3,957

Apr 6, 2012 -- 2:54AM, CharikIeia wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:16PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 5, 2012 -- 8:14PM, JAstor wrote:


If you can't annihilate them, try and get them to give it up piece by piece.



That sounds a lot like Israel's current land grab policy.



I think a pragmatic way of getting the conflict settled would be to propose that for each Jewish family settling on so-and-so many square metres in the West Bank, a Palestinian refugee family thus far being denied a 'right to return' is invited to settle on so-and-so many square metres inside undisputed Israeli territory.


Sounds fair to me. They could fund this family's house with Saudi money, if money is an issue.




And how about every time a missile is fired from Gaza a Jewish family gets to settle on so-and-so many square meters in Gaza. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 06, 2012 - 12:27PM #49
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,981

Chari


There are already many Arab settlers in Israel (mostly they are called Palestinians but there are many others as well). There are more and more Arab settlers  arriving in Israel every day. Some legally, some not legally. My solution. Stop the illegal immigration of Arabs into Israel totally. Allow all of those who are living  in Israel legally to live where they want, deport those who are illegal or figure out a way to legalize their status. Insist that the PA open the "refugee camps" in Palestinian territory and re-settle the people from those "refugee camps" in areas controlled by the PA (not areas under joint control). After the PA signs a peace treaty with Israel, any "refugees" who wish to "return" may do so, only in areas controlled 100% by the PA. 


The only one state solution which would work is one in which the Arabs moved out. Since that is impractical and I doubt they are anxious to move, a one state solution is not practical and will not occur, despite the wishes of those (on this board and elsewhere) who seek Israel's destruction.


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