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Switch to Forum Live View Netanyahu to meet with Fayyad next week
2 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 4:42PM #41
Shusha
Posts: 4,300


KSai,


Palestine is already a State in legal terms and recognition by over 100 nations.


This is not definitive.  I won't necessarily argue this point, though.  You and I have been over this before. 


The negotiations are more to do with the lifting of the unlawful occupation, security, water and right of return which all have valid legal disputes with Israel.


But, in your mind, are they disputes and therefore to be negotiated, or are they violations to be enforced? 


I do not believe the borders need to be negotiated. Netanyahu should be enforced for the pre-67 border line. But that does not mean to say other issues can't be negotiated it.



You know as well as I do that these are armistice lines and not borders.  You also know as well as I do that there are no defined borders which are enforceable by law in any document since the 1920's -- which granted the entire as the Jewish homeland (Israel).  There are plenty of suggestions and plenty of calls for negotiation of secure borders, but no defined territory of Palestine.


And you seem to have flip-flopped about the Jerusalem issue.  Is it to be negotiated?  Or is it already decided and written in a legally enforceable document?



And now you say the right of return should be a point of negotiation as well.  At least I think you are saying that. 


You really need to decide which aspects of the dispute you think should be negotiated and which you think are already decided and legally enforceable (with relevant reference material). 


But I have to say you do adequately portray the Palestinian pov. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 3:43PM #42
KindredSai
Posts: 5,376

This is not definitive.  I won't necessarily argue this point, though.  You and I have been over this before. 



Yes, and you had no case.


Due to your lack of understanding constitutive theory and declarative theory.



But, in your mind, are they disputes and therefore to be negotiated, or are they violations to be enforced? 



I think in some ways Israel has a genuine legal and valid case for issues such as water and the right of return, it is not realistic that millions of Palestinians "return" to Palestine with many never having no previous connection or residency.


As for water again, along with Jordan and other neighbours, Israel has a legal case for negotiation on subjects like this. It is not realistic that one neighbour holds a monopoly on water as the sub-saharan countries accuse Egypt of doing with the Nile




You know as well as I do that these are armistice lines and not borders.  You also know as well as I do that there are no defined borders which are enforceable by law in any document since the 1920's -- which granted the entire as the Jewish homeland (Israel).  There are plenty of suggestions and plenty of calls for negotiation of secure borders, but no defined territory of Palestine.


What a load of rubbish.


There is no legal document that cites that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people in the 1920s. Also citing legality during a time where world jurisprudence was monopolised by the West and her allies is nothing short of a pathetic imperialist apologetics.


Realistically, resolution 181 did cite borders and those borders are near enough to Pre-67 borders, I'm not talking about the armistice lines. In fact Palestinians according to Boyle and other lawyers are actually asking less what they're legally entitled to with 22% of historic Palestine.



And you seem to have flip-flopped about the Jerusalem issue.  Is it to be negotiated?  Or is it already decided and written in a legally enforceable document?


East Jerusalem by all means is legally part of Palestine. I don't think it is by principle to be negotiated. But let's be realistic here, Israel is more powerful than Palestine. It is an occupier and oppressor, not interested in peace like Islamist groups. Many people see negotiation as the means of securing a viable State however there is no evidence that there will be a resolution without a halt to current Israeli actions.




And now you say the right of return should be a point of negotiation as well.  At least I think you are saying that. 


I believe the vast majority should be able to return but that means both Israel and Palestine, with numbers decided by each side.



You really need to decide which aspects of the dispute you think should be negotiated and which you think are already decided and legally enforceable (with relevant reference material).


I have already made my opinions crystal, it is up to you to understand them. 



But I have to say you do adequately portray the Palestinian pov. 



An ignorant statement.


The Palestinians are not united in opinion as you know.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 11:17AM #43
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,240

Here you go - a report on the meeting -

Netanyahu meets top Palestinian officials in J'lem

Delegation headed by Erekat hands Bibi letter from Abbas outlining terms for restarting peace talks. Fayyad pulls out of meeting at last minute

Attila Somfalvi, AP

. . .

"Israel and the Palestinian Authority are committed to peace," a statement released after the meeting read.
. . .

The Palestinian officials handed Netanyahu a letter from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas outlining the Palestinians' conditions for jumpstarting the peace process. The prime minister is expected reply within two weeks.

 

The meeting lasted a little over an hour.

 

Israeli officials said the missive delivered by the Palestinians does not include any new or surprising details. They said the letter Netanyahu's aide Yitzhak Molcho is expected to deliver to the Palestinians in about two weeks will outline Israel's position vis-à-vis the peace process.

 

"It's unlikely that the documents being exchanged between the sides will change the situation on the political front," a source who is familiar with the letters' content said.
. . .

full article:
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-42174...

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