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Switch to Forum Live View Why people don't want single payer healthcare
3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 10:23AM #31
LeahOne
Posts: 16,400

Jasr, my thanks to you for actually understanding what I was trying to explain about the young adults.


YES, continuous coverage is extremely important:  if your 'good' coverage lapses for 63 days, then whatever 'good' plan you get into aftrer that, you pay full premiums but can ONLY get coverage for EMERGENCY services for something like 6 months.  I found that out after we were bounced from 'good' health insurance to lousy on about 2 weeks' notice from the 'employer'....Fortunately on day #61, husband had signed with a new employer and we got 'continuous' coverage. 


 


As for fighting with the insurance company, CIGNA cancelled every appointment we made for more than a month out while we were on COBRA coverage - even though our premiums were paid for six months in advance!  Then they denied our claim for son's hospitalizations at Children's in Boston (which alone should tell you the kid was very very sick) - withOUT giving any reason.  I had to fight each line separately, and on a total bill of $50,000 or so that's a lot of lines......  We had collection agencies sicced on us (that's not supposed to happen, but IT DID), and it took over 6 months before they finally deigned to pay.


I don't really think other insurance companies are much better - but we NEVER had any argument from either Fallon HMO or Harvard about any of my husband's angioplasties. 


I don't know if there are any nonprofit groups which advocate for people whose health insurance claims have been denied - but that's an idea whose time has long since come. I'd volunteer to make phone calls:  I got a lot of experience those six months!


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 10:25AM #32
TENAC
Posts: 26,583

Mar 31, 2012 -- 9:23AM, arielg wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:37PM, TENAC wrote:


What I wish people could realize is the govt is after one thing, power.


If the average US family spends $15,000 per year on health insurance premiums, they can do the math and imagine that in extra tax revenue.  How many families in the US doing that?  This is where they are going.


And you will be promised more and better health care coverage.  All of you on the left truly believe that will be the case and probably a conservative or two.


You cannot point to any govt program that functions well.  None.  And you would turn over the care of your health and that of your children to politicians that cannot balance their own check books or stay faithful to their wives.



Mistrust of government is a very healthy thing indeed.




Not true.  The  size of the pool is an advantage.  That is why insurances can work.   It would be the same for universal healthcare. 


 The government should take care of basic needs and leave those who want more and better services and can pay for it, to the private sector.




Ari I disagree with some of that.


Yes, pool size matters.  But the number of players wanting access to that pool is more important.


But going to a one size fits all health care plan you are forced to "make it fit" and if it doesnt fit all (which any socialist health care program demonstrates), oh well.


Once you go to the osfa approach, that is where you are.  Lets say it costs 1.5 trillion to put that in place (and now, according to the CBO that is obamacare's tag), that is where you are.  The health care you are getting once in place is it.  You can add nothing without raising taxes.  You can give no more without raising taxes.  Doctros and nurses can get no pay increases or access to new technologies without raising taxes, you can build no new facilities without raising taxes,


or


cutting health care services.  This is what will happen.  Eventually, grandma takes the blue pill.  This is no secret, obama said it himself.



Govt needs to get out and then totally (Medicare) out of health care. 


Make the companies fight for their share of the pool, for the individual premium dollar.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 10:26AM #33
Bodean
Posts: 9,591

Mar 30, 2012 -- 2:38PM, mainecaptain wrote:


I am terrifed the Affordable healthcare act will be over turned leaving people with pre existing conditions to die.





The GOP already has a replacement plan in place that includes the provision of pre-existing conditions .. so you need not worry about that.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 11:08AM #34
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Govt needs to get out and then totally (Medicare) out of health care.


Make the companies fight for their share of the pool, for the individual premium dollar



And you think this will drive costs down?  Keep dreaming. The healthcare industry is a maffia that needs strong regulation, like any industry that provides basic needs.  There is no such thing as competition in the healthcare industry.  They even keep down any attempt at alternative medicine.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 11:25AM #35
REteach
Posts: 14,796

In January my retired father and mother changed from one medicare supplemental insurance to another. Yesterday he got out of rehab after having had a stroke.  Apparently his new insurance will cover it all--probably well over $200K.  With the previous coverage they would have paid a lot. Between IRAs, pension and stocks. they have over a million dollars, but it would have still made a dent. Now, assume someone who worked as a housekeeper their entire life and didn't have as much as my parents.  How would they have covered that?


Why do we have to be so selfish? Why can't we share with those who need help?

Screw Obamacare. We need a national plan so anyone can go to a provider anywhere and get care without all this BS that we have now.  People should not have to declare bankruptcy because they had major medical bills.  Besides, when they declare bankruptcy, eventually the taxpayers will be paying more to cover their default anyway.  

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard was not what I meant...
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 12:26PM #36
TENAC
Posts: 26,583

Mar 31, 2012 -- 11:25AM, REteach wrote:


In January my retired father and mother changed from one medicare supplemental insurance to another. Yesterday he got out of rehab after having had a stroke.  Apparently his new insurance will cover it all--probably well over $200K.  With the previous coverage they would have paid a lot. Between IRAs, pension and stocks. they have over a million dollars, but it would have still made a dent. Now, assume someone who worked as a housekeeper their entire life and didn't have as much as my parents.  How would they have covered that?


This senario does not, will not, and cannot happen under obamacare beyond two years of its implementation.  Your parents had choices.  Dont forget that.


Why do we have to be so selfish? Why can't we share with those who need help?


Maybe your parents should give up an IRA or some stock?  I mean a million dollars, and someone else might be a housekeeper.  How many times could they help with a surgery like that at $200K a go, 4 or 5?

Screw Obamacare. We need a national plan so anyone can go to a provider anywhere and get care without all this BS that we have now.  People should not have to declare bankruptcy because they had major medical bills.  Besides, when they declare bankruptcy, eventually the taxpayers will be paying more to cover their default anyway.  


Whether you realize it or not, you have hit the nail on the head.  With this response easily, EASILY 50% of the problems with health care and health care costs could be addressed.  When enough of the left come to this same conclusion, we will be able to do something about.  +10 on this part.




Well, wow.


Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 12:33PM #37
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

Mar 31, 2012 -- 12:15AM, teilhard wrote:


The Insurance Corporations and for-Profit Hospitals are after one Thing, MONEY ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:37PM, TENAC wrote:


What I wish people could realize is the govt is after one thing, power.


If the average US family spends $15,000 per year on health insurance premiums, they can do the math and imagine that in extra tax revenue.  How many families in the US doing that?  This is where they are going.


And you will be promised more and better health care coverage.  All of you on the left truly believe that will be the case and probably a conservative or two.



You cannot point to any govt program that functions well.  None.  And you would turn over the care of your health and that of your children to politicians that cannot balance their own check books or stay faithful to their wives.



Mistrust of government is a very healthy thing indeed.






QTF


And I would add funerals are cheaper than dialysis.


So a PRIVATE company would rather pay for . . . a blue pill.


The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 3:31PM #38
TENAC
Posts: 26,583

Mar 31, 2012 -- 12:33PM, Paladinsf wrote:

Mar 31, 2012 -- 12:15AM, teilhard wrote:



The Insurance Corporations and for-Profit Hospitals are after one Thing, MONEY ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:37PM, TENAC wrote:


What I wish people could realize is the govt is after one thing, power.


If the average US family spends $15,000 per year on health insurance premiums, they can do the math and imagine that in extra tax revenue.  How many families in the US doing that?  This is where they are going.


And you will be promised more and better health care coverage.  All of you on the left truly believe that will be the case and probably a conservative or two.



You cannot point to any govt program that functions well.  None.  And you would turn over the care of your health and that of your children to politicians that cannot balance their own check books or stay faithful to their wives.



Mistrust of government is a very healthy thing indeed.








QTF


And I would add funerals are cheaper than dialysis.


So a PRIVATE company would rather pay for . . . a blue pill.





Well, right now we know......


obama said older people might have to take the blue pill.


Private insurance companies are contractually bound.  Until they come under ACA, and they do.

Any man can count the seeds in an apple....
.......but only God can count the apples in the seeds.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 6:07PM #39
Paladinsf
Posts: 3,660

Mar 31, 2012 -- 3:31PM, TENAC wrote:


Mar 31, 2012 -- 12:33PM, Paladinsf wrote:

Mar 31, 2012 -- 12:15AM, teilhard wrote:



The Insurance Corporations and for-Profit Hospitals are after one Thing, MONEY ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:37PM, TENAC wrote:


What I wish people could realize is the govt is after one thing, power.


If the average US family spends $15,000 per year on health insurance premiums, they can do the math and imagine that in extra tax revenue.  How many families in the US doing that?  This is where they are going.


And you will be promised more and better health care coverage.  All of you on the left truly believe that will be the case and probably a conservative or two.



You cannot point to any govt program that functions well.  None.  And you would turn over the care of your health and that of your children to politicians that cannot balance their own check books or stay faithful to their wives.



Mistrust of government is a very healthy thing indeed.








QTF


And I would add funerals are cheaper than dialysis.


So a PRIVATE company would rather pay for . . . a blue pill.





Well, right now we know......


obama said older people might have to take the blue pill.


Private insurance companies are contractually bound.  Until they come under ACA, and they do.




See this is the kind of nonsesne that is so-o-o infuriating. So they are "contractually bound." So wh-a-a-t? They don't care nor should they. And in any case what good is it? While you are trying to enforce the contract your SICK. You might even win - so wh-a-a-at? Your dead.


And even if you do win and are still alive what do you win? They go bankrupt today and open up tomorrow under another name and fleece some more suckers.

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
The belief in supernatural religion will kill us all if we don't outgrow it.

When I first read "End of Faith" I thought Sam went too far. The more I read and listen to these "believers" the more I wonder if maybe he wasn't right after all.
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 12:03AM #40
Find1Answer
Posts: 7,292

Mar 30, 2012 -- 2:59PM, MMarcoe wrote:

I believe the quality of healthcare will suffer under single-payer. There will be death panels. There will be rationed care.


But on the other hand, I think that private health insurance will still have a place, and I think it will find a way to fill in the gaps.


Why?

Bush's "de-Bathification program" eliminated all vestiges of Sunni power in Iraqi society and set the stage for the Sunni insurrection against American occupation and the new Shiite-led government. Bush disbanded the entire Sunni-dominated Iraqi Army and bureaucracy. He didn't change it. He didn't make it more inclusive of Shiites and Kurds. He just disbanded it. It is no accident that two of the top commanders of today's ISIL are former commanders in the Saddam-era Iraqi military.
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