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Switch to Forum Live View UTAH! Sex Ed is "Don't do it, talk about it or be around anyone who does"
2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 8:59AM #21
Do_unto_others
Posts: 7,813

Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:39PM, Esdraelon wrote:


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:16PM, Do_unto_others wrote:


It's a Republican-sponsored bill.


Color me NOT surprised.




Democrats did'nt exactly stem the tide of illegitmate births themselves



Already refuted above.


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:39PM, Esdraelon wrote:

Kids basically get all the sex education and training they need on the tube every night. What they don't learn they get it from their friends.



If you call that an education, I guess Sesame Street is a perfectly acceptable education in spelling and math, along with what they "learn" from their "friends".


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:39PM, Esdraelon wrote:


Republican? So what, At last count of the National and State elections, the Democrats, got  run out of town on rails. You'll just have to cry.





I weep for the promulgation of ignorance that Repugs seem to cherish.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 9:41AM #22
Esdraelon
Posts: 5,236

 


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:39PM, Esdraelon wrote:


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:16PM, Do_unto_others wrote:


It's a Republican-sponsored bill.


Color me NOT surprised.




Democrats did'nt exactly stem the tide of illegitmate births themselves



Mar 28, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Do_unto_others wrote:

Already refuted above.



It is always amusing how you liberals try to bring an argument to a conclusion by 'refuting' it according to your declarations. Had I made those on the flip side, you would be screaming at me to substantiate what I posted.


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:39PM, Esdraelon wrote:

Kids basically get all the sex education and training they need on the tube every night. What they don't learn they get it from their friends.



Mar 28, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Do_unto_others wrote:

If you call that an education, I guess Sesame Street is a perfectly acceptable education in spelling and math, along with what they "learn" from their "friends".



The topic of the OP is sex education...nice try at a strawman.


Mar 27, 2012 -- 4:39PM, Esdraelon wrote:


Republican? So what, At last count of the National and State elections, the Democrats, got  run out of town on rails. You'll just have to cry.





Mar 28, 2012 -- 8:59AM, Do_unto_others wrote:

I weep for the promulgation of ignorance that Repugs seem to cherish.



 Then I daresay your weeping will be nonstop after the first Tuesday this November.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 9:53AM #23
Esdraelon
Posts: 5,236

Mar 28, 2012 -- 8:26AM, TemplarS wrote:


Here is an interesting article (courtesy of Cherubino on the Discuss Catholicism board)


www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/03/0...


which shows how Evangelicals have evidently shot themselves in the foot with their opposition to birth control edcuation. And then, making a silk purse out of a sow's ear, hold up pregnant teens who decide to keep their babies as role models...


To be clear here, the article also mentions that Mormons are not part of this trend: "According to Add Health data, evangelical teen-agers are more sexually active than Mormons, mainline Protestants, and Jews."

I wonder how the following fits in? I wonder which of the above groups Mr. Santorum is referring to?


Rick Santorum yesterday tried to explain to Fox News contributor Sandy Rios why Catholic voters do not eagerly support him, despite the fact that he’s Catholic. He claimed he performs better “with folks who do practice their religion more ardently,” as opposed to those who do not “take their faith seriously“.




I have no problem with 'sex education' which supposedly is focused at preventing unwanted births....


The OP states:


c) Human sexuality instruction or instructional programs may not include instruction
70 in, the advocacy of, or the discussion of:



71 (i) the intricacies of intercourse, sexual stimulation, or erotic behavior; Sure in addition to teaching students about birth control methods, teach em how to enjoy it while your at it....maybe even some show and tell....


72 (ii) homosexuality;  at last glance , I have never heard of homosexuality leading to any type of birth...........or the necessity for birth control, though I have certainly understand  the need for 'protection'.....



73 (iii) contraceptive methods or devices;  nothing at all inappropriate with that



74 (iv) sexual activity outside of marriage.  now what the HE double L does this have to do with 'sex eduction' for kids in high school?


Whose 'morality' is being forced here?





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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:07AM #24
costrel
Posts: 6,216

Mar 28, 2012 -- 9:53AM, Esdraelon wrote:

72 (ii) homosexuality;  at last glance , I have never heard of homosexuality leading to any type of birth...........or the necessity for birth control, though I have certainly understand  the need for 'protection'..... 


We are talking about sexual education, not just procreation education. Homosexuality IS a part of human sexuality and human sexual activity, and should therefore be discussed in a sexual education course. 

 74 (iv) sexual activity outside of marriage.  now what the HE double L does this have to do with 'sex eduction' for kids in high school?


Whose 'morality' is being forced here? 


Many high school students are sexually active, and most high school students are not married. Seems quite appropriate to discuss sexual activity outside of marriage to me. As for whose morality is being forced here: Since the discussion of sexual activity outside of marriage was on a proposed list of banned topics, it is obvious that the morality being forced is that of those who support marriage and support sexual activity within the confines of marriage. 

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:13AM #25
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,767

Oh, heavens! Let's not talk to teenagers about naughty things! It might give 'em ideas.


When I was a teenager, our teachers didn't tell us naughty things. And so I had only pure thoughts about the girl who sat next to me in math class. You know... the one with the really fantastic set of...




... test scores.


Wink

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:40AM #26
mountain_man
Posts: 38,062

Mar 27, 2012 -- 11:43PM, mainecaptain wrote:

The regressives on the right always amaze me in this (bolding mine).


You just have to remember that when they talk about "smaller government" they are talking about government controlling your private life but not interfering at all with big business. They actually consider not allowing a company to put lead in baby food to be interfering with business.


About this lying bit, lying about forcing a church to buy birth control. Why do they have to lie about it? If they had something proper to say, some valid point, something good for America; why do they have to lie so much? Do they really have such a problem with people getting affordable health care that they have to lie about it?


That they even tried to gut sex ed shows the depth of depravity they're willing to go.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:45AM #27
mountain_man
Posts: 38,062

Mar 28, 2012 -- 9:41AM, Esdraelon wrote:

It is always amusing how you liberals try to bring an argument to a conclusion by 'refuting' it according to your declarations.....


No "Liberal" refuted what you said, the facts did. Oh, sorry, I forgot, you don't like facts. They always seem to get in your way.


Then I daresay your weeping will be nonstop after the first Tuesday this November.


No, if a Regressive gets in the White House, the whole country, except for the uber rich, will be weeping. Ever see the movie "Metropolis"? That's what the Regressives want.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 10:47AM #28
mountain_man
Posts: 38,062

Mar 28, 2012 -- 9:53AM, Esdraelon wrote:

I have no problem with 'sex education' which supposedly is focused at preventing unwanted births....


That is not what sex education is about.


Whose 'morality' is being forced here?


No ones. They're just teaching those pesky facts again.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 11:02AM #29
Esdraelon
Posts: 5,236

Mar 28, 2012 -- 10:47AM, mountain_man wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 9:53AM, Esdraelon wrote:

I have no problem with 'sex education' which supposedly is focused at preventing unwanted births....


That is not what sex education is about.


Whose 'morality' is being forced here?


No ones. They're just teaching those pesky facts again.




AGAIN...a difference of OPINION..


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2 years ago  ::  Mar 28, 2012 - 11:02AM #30
Unworthyone
Posts: 1,956

Apparently, ignorance and misinformation is preferable to fact-based education in Utah.


My wife and I came to an agreement before our only daughter was born.  We agreed that no matter what, we would always tell our daughter the truth.  And we would explain our values as it related to the truth.  If we did not know the truth, we would educate ourselves before we talked to our daughter.  The end result was our daughter almost always came to us when she had a question, or she would come to us to compare our thoughts with something she had heard or read someplace else.  This is because she looked to us as a reliable source of information and rational thought.


We knew that if she ever suspected we were either lying to her or simply ignorant on a given subject, she would seek her information elsewhere.  And that scared the hell out of us.


We did not try to scare our kid about premarital sex.  We simply gave her the truth about how pregnancy occurs (yes, you can become pregnant your very first time, regardless of what the boy tells you).  We discussed the realities of STDs.  We discussed the potential problems of sex without emotional commitment.  Yes, oral sex is sex. We also discussed where she might find unreliable sources of information (ie porn sites, other kids with their own agendas, Cosmo magazine, etc.).  We discussed the various forms of birth control, their advantages and drawbacks.


Because of this, our daughter was able to keep sex in perspective and filter all the crap from the knowledge, including what she might have heard in a Sex Ed class.


The bottom line is this: Her parents took responsibility for educating her regarding sex and everything else.  Gee, what a novel concept!  Parents parenting!

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

Here's the difference between a capitalist society and a communist society:  Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's the other way around.
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