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Switch to Forum Live View "Political Islam" - what's that?
2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 3:49PM #151
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,944

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Ibn wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 12:56PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Perhaps this is "Political Islam"

'Every aspect of life is to be Islamized'


What was the point of them calling themselves "Muslims" if every aspect of their life had been unislamized over the last few centuries?


Perhaps it is a cry for 'back to basics'.




Ibn


You would have to ask the Muslim Brotherhood about their motivation in naming themselves Muslim. However, I would suspect the Muslim Brother hood named themselves the Muslim Brotherhood because they are Muslims and they are putting forth an agenda which they consider to be Islamic. That is the only reasonable assumption. Feel free to be unreasonable if that suits you better.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 3:52PM #152
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Ibn wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 12:56PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Perhaps this is "Political Islam"

'Every aspect of life is to be Islamized'


What was the point of them calling themselves "Muslims" if every aspect of their life had been unislamized over the last few centuries?


Perhaps it is a cry for 'back to basics'.




I thought exactly the same thing!  The only way for a society to be "Islamized" is to allow each person to decide for themselves what religion to practice, how to practice or whether to practice.  No compulsion in religion is Allah's way, but you'd have to know Islam to know that.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 4:21PM #153
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,944

Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:52PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Ibn wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 12:56PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Perhaps this is "Political Islam"

'Every aspect of life is to be Islamized'


What was the point of them calling themselves "Muslims" if every aspect of their life had been unislamized over the last few centuries?


Perhaps it is a cry for 'back to basics'.




I thought exactly the same thing!  The only way for a society to be "Islamized" is to allow each person to decide for themselves what religion to practice, how to practice or whether to practice.  No compulsion in religion is Allah's way, but you'd have to know Islam to know that.




Miraj


No compulsion in religion may be Allah's way, but it is not the way of the Islamists such as the Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a. whatever we are calling them today - yesterday it was "nut jobs") and it has historically not been the way of Arab Muslim ruled areas where forced conversions were (and still are) commonplace. If you look at the two main contenders for most "Muslim" country, KSA and Iran you will find that compulsion in religion and forced conformity to "Islamic" standards is the rule, not the exception. 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 4:41PM #154
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Apr 10, 2012 -- 4:21PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


No compulsion in religion may be Allah's way, but it is not the way of the Islamists such as the Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a. whatever we are calling them today - yesterday it was "nut jobs") and it has historically not been the way of Arab Muslim ruled areas where forced conversions were (and still are) commonplace. If you look at the two main contenders for most "Muslim" country, KSA and Iran you will find that compulsion in religion and forced conformity to "Islamic" standards is the rule, not the exception. 




"Forced conversions" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) are not commonplace in Arab ruled areas.  Between the two of us, you're the only one that calls Iran and the KSA "Islamic".

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 5:21PM #155
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,944

The Islamic Republic of Iran:


Iran (i/ɪˈrɑːn/;[10][11] Persian: ایران[ʔiˈɾɒn] ( listen)), officially the Islamic Republic of Iran (Persian: جمهوری اسلامی ایرانJomhuri-ye Eslāmi-ye Irān), is a country in Southern and Western Asia.[12][13] The name "Iran", which in Persian means "Land of the Aryans", has been in use natively since the Sassanian era.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran


Permanent Mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran in the United Nations


www.iran-un.org/index.php?option=com_con...





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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 5:25PM #156
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,944

The History of Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia traces its roots back to the earliest civilizations of the Arabian Peninsula. Over the centuries, the peninsula has played an important role in history as an ancient trade center and as the birthplace of Islam, one of the world’s major monotheistic religions.
www.saudiembassy.net/about/country-infor...

The Embassy of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is located at 601 New Hampshire Avenue ... that of a modern industrial state while maintaining the kingdom's traditional Islamic ...
www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3584.htm

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 7:07PM #157
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Apr 10, 2012 -- 4:41PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 4:21PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


No compulsion in religion may be Allah's way, but it is not the way of the Islamists such as the Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a. whatever we are calling them today - yesterday it was "nut jobs") and it has historically not been the way of Arab Muslim ruled areas where forced conversions were (and still are) commonplace. If you look at the two main contenders for most "Muslim" country, KSA and Iran you will find that compulsion in religion and forced conformity to "Islamic" standards is the rule, not the exception. 




"Forced conversions" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) are not commonplace in Arab ruled areas.  Between the two of us, you're the only one that calls Iran and the KSA "Islamic".




The thing is both the KSA and Iran certainly do claim to be Islamic. So if a Muslim says that neither is 'Islamic' then the obvious question is, what exactly is 'Islamic'? My position is that if a Muslim country says that it is 'Is;lamic' then it damn well IS 'Islamic' BUT, it defines 'Islamic' in its own way.


And this is a great example of why political Islam most certaily does exist. And how 'political Islam' operates does impact the politics of the whole, Middle East.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 8:08PM #158
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,944

Apr 10, 2012 -- 7:07PM, rangerken wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 4:41PM, Miraj wrote:


Apr 10, 2012 -- 4:21PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


No compulsion in religion may be Allah's way, but it is not the way of the Islamists such as the Muslim Brotherhood (a.k.a. whatever we are calling them today - yesterday it was "nut jobs") and it has historically not been the way of Arab Muslim ruled areas where forced conversions were (and still are) commonplace. If you look at the two main contenders for most "Muslim" country, KSA and Iran you will find that compulsion in religion and forced conformity to "Islamic" standards is the rule, not the exception. 




"Forced conversions" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) are not commonplace in Arab ruled areas.  Between the two of us, you're the only one that calls Iran and the KSA "Islamic".




The thing is both the KSA and Iran certainly do claim to be Islamic. So if a Muslim says that neither is 'Islamic' then the obvious question is, what exactly is 'Islamic'? My position is that if a Muslim country says that it is 'Is;lamic' then it damn well IS 'Islamic' BUT, it defines 'Islamic' in its own way.


And this is a great example of why political Islam most certaily does exist. And how 'political Islam' operates does impact the politics of the whole, Middle East.


Ken




Ken


For good or bad how "Political Islam" operates also impacts how Islam is viewed by both Muslims and non-Muslims, how Islam is practiced by Muslims, and how Islam interacts with other religions and belief systems.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2012 - 9:15PM #159
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

Good points. You know, what we see here is an example of how Muslims and non-Muslims...not all of either of course... look at the same things and interpret them very differently. That's neither a good nor bad thing...just reality.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2012 - 11:53AM #160
Ibn
Posts: 4,816

Apr 10, 2012 -- 12:56PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Perhaps this is "Political Islam"


'Every aspect of life is to be Islamized'



Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:13PM, Ibn wrote:

What was the point of them calling themselves "Muslims" if every aspect of their life had been unislamized over the last few centuries?


Perhaps it is a cry for 'back to basics'.



Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:49PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

Ibn


You would have to ask the Muslim Brotherhood about their motivation in naming themselves Muslim.


You did not understand what I had asked.


If the secular guys are moaning about islamization, why are they calling themselves "Muslims"? A Muslim cannot live outside Islam. If he wants to live outside Islam then it would be out of his mind for him to regard himself a Muslim. 


Apr 10, 2012 -- 3:49PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

However, I would suspect the Muslim Brother hood named themselves the Muslim Brotherhood because they are Muslims and they are putting forth an agenda which they consider to be Islamic.


I am glad that you understand that bit about Muslim Brotherhood. What's wrong with Muslim Brotherhood having an agenda which they consider to be Islamic? I am sure creation of State of Israel was an agenda that was a Jewish agenda based on their religion. It is hypocrisy to blame Muslims for having an Islamic agenda.


FYI, we, Muslims, call each other "brothers". Several Muslims in a party would be "brotherhood". Obviously they are Muslims and, therefore, the party is called Muslim Brotherhood. Those who oppose them, including hypocrites who call themselves "Muslims", are doing so to divide the Muslims against each other. It's not going to work. Pendulum has started to swing in the other direction!

I know one thing: There are a billion Islamic people in the world today, and there will be about 2 billion by the time we're dead. They're not going to give up their religion.
(Chris Matthews)
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