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Switch to Forum Live View Zimmerman: I was attacked first
2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 8:38AM #211
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Apr 1, 2012 -- 5:52AM, river8101 wrote:


It is completely obvious to those of us who either don't live in the south or those who don't live in states where carrying a handgun around is OK, or live in states where slavery was never permitted, and where we learned at home and in school that slavery was a horrible thing.  Nobody really believes one word Zimmerman has said, or that his lawyer has spoken.   He's lying, and should have been arrested immediately.  If he had killed a white boy, he'd have gone to jail right away, or if the shooter had been black, and the boy in the hoddie, white, the black shooter would have been put in jail immediately, or possibly murdered by the police on the spot, citing self defense.   


The south will never rid itself of it's disgusting history.  Yet they are the ones who brought the slaves in and used them in the first place, then started a horrible war with the north thinking they'd win, and could keep their black slaves.  Black slaves, people who could be bought, sold, raped, murdered, etc. and were not even thought of as human beings.  Many things have not changed in the south. They still have a lousy education system in many states.  They'd still love to have their slaves back again, and they still think they are superior to black people.  The Zimmerman case proves that.





What an outlandish statement. How do you know what evetyone believes or doesn't believe.


There is too much hysteria on both sides for me to take a position one way or the other. I will wait for the facts.


I do believe that opportunists like Sharpton and Jackson will pollute the truth.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 9:04AM #212
teilhard
Posts: 50,879

The Community of Sanford, Florida so far doesn't come across as a place I would want to live or even visit ...


***shudder***


Apr 1, 2012 -- 5:52AM, river8101 wrote:


It is completely obvious to those of us who either don't live in the south or those who don't live in states where carrying a handgun around is OK, or live in states where slavery was never permitted, and where we learned at home and in school that slavery was a horrible thing.  Nobody really believes one word Zimmerman has said, or that his lawyer has spoken.   He's lying, and should have been arrested immediately.  If he had killed a white boy, he'd have gone to jail right away, or if the shooter had been black, and the boy in the hoddie, white, the black shooter would have been put in jail immediately, or possibly murdered by the police on the spot, citing self defense.   


The south will never rid itself of it's disgusting history.  Yet they are the ones who brought the slaves in and used them in the first place, then started a horrible war with the north thinking they'd win, and could keep their black slaves.  Black slaves, people who could be bought, sold, raped, murdered, etc. and were not even thought of as human beings.  Many things have not changed in the south. They still have a lousy education system in many states.  They'd still love to have their slaves back again, and they still think they are superior to black people.  The Zimmerman case proves that.






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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 10:17AM #213
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,149

Mar 31, 2012 -- 4:55PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 31, 2012 -- 9:52AM, Esdraelon wrote:


A voice of reason! Will wonders never cease! That's been my point on every Zimmerman thread, but the hangman's siren call for the general public apparently is sweet.........




If you would listen to the 9-1-1 tapes, you will find out that Zimmerman didn't accuse Martin of throwing rocks or anything else of the sort.   What he DID say is that the kid was just walking around, and it looked to Zimmerman that he was up to no good, that he -- Zimmerman -- was tired of "them" always getting away with it, and that the kid who was just walking around was "entering" from the back entrance, the "f'ing coon'.


What more do you want to decide that maybe, just maybe, Martin was actually a good kid and that the hero of his neighborhood, Zimmerman, was wrong.


What I read is that it was 6 min from the end of the Zimmerman's 9-1-1 dispatcher tape to the gun shot.


Some of us -- and I will acknowledge that it is just some of us, do not believe that a civilian should have a "right" to shoot a kid dead for walking to a residence he had a right to be at after buying candy and a drink at a convenience store.  Some of us do not believe that a civilian should be able to claim "self defense" after killing someone and have absolutely no investigation done to check the veracity of the claim.  There are so many holes in Zimmerman's claims that the lack of an investigation is already an atrocity.  Some of us do believe in innocent till proven guilty, something Zimmerman obviously DOESN'T believe in when it comes to "f'ing coons'.


It's bad enough when cops shoot an unarmed person who was doing nothing wrong.  At least those cops get desk duty while an investigation is conducted to see if it was an unjustified shooting.  Zimmerman, on the other hand, gets a pass just because some people believe with all their hearts in Shoot First/Ask Questions Later aka Have Gun/Will Travel philosophy, so sure or unconcerned as they are that no innocent person will ever be a victim of such sloppy laws. 




 




Did you read my post . I did not say that rocks were thrown I said  maybe( bolded in the post for emphasis conjecture for argument) , and 911 calls are not  about past events they are for ongoing emergencies. We have no history of the neighborhood or of the afternoon. And it was not at night. It was civil twilight when the shooting took place.  




“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 11:56AM #214
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Fortunatly there are organizations like the NAACP who recognize the Reverend Al as the self-serving rabble rouser that he is. The NAACP represents all black interests, Sharpton appeals to the lower strata of black society.


www.clickorlando.com/news/Civil-rights-l...

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 1:40PM #215
rabello
Posts: 20,955

Apr 1, 2012 -- 10:17AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Did you read my post . I did not say that rocks were thrown I said  maybe( bolded in the post for emphasis conjecture for argument) , and 911 calls are not  about past events they are for ongoing emergencies. We have no history of the neighborhood or of the afternoon. And it was not at night. It was civil twilight when the shooting took place.  




Of course I read your post. 


Martin was not throwing rocks, stalking anyone, trying to break into somebody's house, peering into somebody's bedroom window.


He was "walking around", according to Zimmerman, in his 9-1-1 conversation about Martin, not previous calls.  


When I read your post, it became clear that you have not heard the relevant 9-1-1 conversation, the one where he accuses Martin of "looking like he's up to no good," "on drugs", having "his hands in his pants", "just walking around," "entering the back entrance....F'ing 'coon'", "'they' always get away", "yes I'm following him"

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 1:48PM #216
rabello
Posts: 20,955

Apr 1, 2012 -- 11:56AM, Marcion wrote:


Fortunatly there are organizations like the NAACP who recognize the Reverend Al as the self-serving rabble rouser that he is. The NAACP represents all black interests, Sharpton appeals to the lower strata of black society.


www.clickorlando.com/news/Civil-rights-l...





Why do you insist on making this about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson when it's about an innocent victim of a paranoid hothead who relied on stereotyping to justify what he did and who, for 30 days, got a pass from the cops, and will, in the end, get a pass from the "authorities". 


Start a separate thread about the hated Sharpton, the hated Jackson, the hated Brawley, the hated Rodney King, the hated OJ Simpson, and whomever else you want to talk about.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 6:35PM #217
Stardove
Posts: 15,294

Apr 1, 2012 -- 6:39AM, arielg wrote:


I don't believe it is the gun laws which are bad, but the judgement of some who do not think before they act such as in this case.  It has been said over and over Zimmerman should not have approached Martin.  If Zimmerman had done what the dispatcher advised, not to follow and to meet the officers most likely Trayvon would have been inside the residence by the time the police arrived. ~ End of story.




The gun laws  make it easy  for  those who do not hink before they act .  There will always be Zimmermans who will act before  they think, because  the laws allow it. End of story.


(This is not relieving Zimmerman of his responsibility)


Praying that it won't happen or dismissing it as an anomaly is not enough.  If it can happen, it will happen, sooner or later.  We can't rationalize it  every time it happens and pretend it  is just  a "bad apple" and it won't happen again.


That is why we don't allow people to carry machine guns.  I am sure most people would  use good judgement with them, but we don't allow them because we know it will  not always be  the case. The rights of society are more important than the right of some individuals to carry them.


As long as people  are willing to carry deadly weapons, there will be dead people.  It is just common sense. We have to get rid of the nonsense that weapons are "protection".



I was only speaking about myself when I said I pray. 


I sincerely hope I never have to be in a situation where I feel a need to defend myself with deadly force.  I hope you never find yourself in harm's way either. 


The reality of the world we live in is there are some evil people in it who do want to harm innocent people.  There are people in the world would want to rob, rape, assault and kill people, etc. 


This doesn't mean that all people are evil.  It only take one evil person to commit an act of violence against another person.  This to me is a reality.  If not, pray tell why do we have prisons?


Take your quote and say: Crimes do happen, crimes will happen, sooner or later.  We can't rationalize them every time they happens and pretend it is just a "bad apple" and crimes won't happen again.



I had just about decided not to go through the class and apply for my CHL.  When I told my 81 year old mother this, she told me about a 2nd cousin of mine who was assaulted, and almost killed in Dallas after getting some money from an ATM about a week before we were talking.  A woman and several men jumped my cousin as she was coming out of a convenience store, and she just about died from the attack.  I live under 30 minutes away from Dallas and on occasion do go into the city, so I re-thought my position about applying for the CHL.




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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 7:05PM #218
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Take your quote and say: Crimes do happen, crimes will happen, sooner or later.  We can't rationalize them every time they happens and pretend it is just a "bad apple" and crimes won't happen again.




Yes. All I am saying is that guns won't prevent it.  On the contrary, one more gun, no matter in whose hands,  makes it a little more probable  that someone will get killed. Guns for protection is an illusion. It would certainly not have made a difference in the example you gave.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 8:17PM #219
farragut
Posts: 3,982

" All I am saying is that guns won't prevent it.  On the contrary, one more gun, no matter in whose hands,  makes it a little more probable  that someone will get killed. Guns for protection is an illusion"


I challenge that. A friend of mine, a former baptist preacher, as a matter of fact, found himself stopped at a red light in westside of Louisville, surrounded by a group of 8 - 12 sturdy young men looking at him with hungry expressions. He pulled out his 357, opened the window, and said to the menacing young man, " Are you sure you are ready for this?"


In two shakes of a lamb's tail the gang disappeared and Jim went on with his work.


Take from this what you will.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2012 - 8:53PM #220
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Anecdotal evidences don't prove much.  He could just as well have been shot right then and there, when they saw his gun.

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