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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 9:34AM #191
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,132

Mar 30, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 1:42PM, teilhard wrote:


I agree that "OJ" probably was Guilty ...


BUT the Investigation was so badly handled by The LAPD (including especially by a self-admitted racist Cop, Mark Fuhrman) that the Jury DID have "Reasonable Doubt" ... the Jury DID essentially find "The System" GUILTY of screwing-up ...


(BTW, the Prosecutor of The "OJ" Case, Marcia Clark, has come out in Public indicating that The Night Stalker probably did NOT have reasonable Grounds for Self-Defense ... So ...)


Mar 30, 2012 -- 12:57PM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 10:14AM, teilhard wrote:


An of course, many of us recall that The Rodney King Case figured prominently in the Fact that The SYSTEM was as much on Trial then as was "OJ" ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:38PM, Marcion wrote:


Prudent black leaders recognize Reverend Al and Jese Jackson as the racist trouble makers they are.


dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-s...




You mean the rightwing Republican ones who opine on FAUX News and on rightwing blogs like Daily Caller, which are at the forefront in demonizing a murdered teenager?


Maybe Alveda King and other black rightwingers can get around to explaining exactly WHY the Shooter Zimmerman "suspected" Trayvon Martin of being a "no gooder" just because he was walking through a "gated community" on the way back from a store where he bought candy and a nonalcoholic drink in a can? 


How about it Alveda?  What's your considered opinion on that event? White rightwingers do not see a need to question or explain that particular, precipitating event...maybe you, Alveda, can enlighten us.




Your responses remind me of the people who said you weren't really black unless you believed OJ was innocent. Facts be damned








The difference was OJ was guilty. People went to prison on less compelling evidence. Jury nullification is not justice. If Zimmermn goes to trial we may very well see jury nullification again.


The purpose of a jury trial is to determine guilt or innocense, not to "send a message".








Oh yes Marcia Clark who had more time to tell Johnny Cochran that she was wearing crotchless panties rather than pursue a case. Of course having an idiot for a judge who was more concerned about how he appeared on the Jay Leno, plus allowing booze soaked F Lee Bailey o question Furman if he ever used the N word, what a crock, what did that have to do with anything. As one black detective later remarked he couldn't understand why Mark was that stupid since all detectives in South Central used the N word.




In the United States, everyone is presumed innocent until proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, guilty, by a Jury of peers, or a Judge or by confession in a court of law.  OJ was found not guilty by a Jury so he is not guilty.  


Until this cse goes to court, if it does, will evidence of his guilt be presented. Now the public just knows snippets of what occurred. Most of the conclusions drawn by BN posters ae unfounded , and a lot of wrong information is being posted.  George Zimmerman was licensed by the state of Florida to carry a concealed weapon. 


911 operators are not law enforcement officers, they are a phone answering service. There instructions are advisory as they are not on the scene and do not know the situation. 


Does any poster know  how long and where Zimmereman had observed the young man? Do you know if he had exhibited  suspicious behavior ?  Maybe he had thrown a rock at a street light.  What has been occurring in the neighborhood in the  recent past/ Did it involved a young man or a group of them?  


Until a jury is convinced  Zimmerman is innocent.     

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 9:52AM #192
Esdraelon
Posts: 5,236

Mar 31, 2012 -- 9:34AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 4:07PM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 1:42PM, teilhard wrote:


I agree that "OJ" probably was Guilty ...


BUT the Investigation was so badly handled by The LAPD (including especially by a self-admitted racist Cop, Mark Fuhrman) that the Jury DID have "Reasonable Doubt" ... the Jury DID essentially find "The System" GUILTY of screwing-up ...


(BTW, the Prosecutor of The "OJ" Case, Marcia Clark, has come out in Public indicating that The Night Stalker probably did NOT have reasonable Grounds for Self-Defense ... So ...)


Mar 30, 2012 -- 12:57PM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 30, 2012 -- 10:14AM, teilhard wrote:


An of course, many of us recall that The Rodney King Case figured prominently in the Fact that The SYSTEM was as much on Trial then as was "OJ" ...


Mar 30, 2012 -- 9:06AM, Marcion wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 28, 2012 -- 3:38PM, Marcion wrote:


Prudent black leaders recognize Reverend Al and Jese Jackson as the racist trouble makers they are.


dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/alveda-king-s...




You mean the rightwing Republican ones who opine on FAUX News and on rightwing blogs like Daily Caller, which are at the forefront in demonizing a murdered teenager?


Maybe Alveda King and other black rightwingers can get around to explaining exactly WHY the Shooter Zimmerman "suspected" Trayvon Martin of being a "no gooder" just because he was walking through a "gated community" on the way back from a store where he bought candy and a nonalcoholic drink in a can? 


How about it Alveda?  What's your considered opinion on that event? White rightwingers do not see a need to question or explain that particular, precipitating event...maybe you, Alveda, can enlighten us.




Your responses remind me of the people who said you weren't really black unless you believed OJ was innocent. Facts be damned








The difference was OJ was guilty. People went to prison on less compelling evidence. Jury nullification is not justice. If Zimmermn goes to trial we may very well see jury nullification again.


The purpose of a jury trial is to determine guilt or innocense, not to "send a message".








Oh yes Marcia Clark who had more time to tell Johnny Cochran that she was wearing crotchless panties rather than pursue a case. Of course having an idiot for a judge who was more concerned about how he appeared on the Jay Leno, plus allowing booze soaked F Lee Bailey o question Furman if he ever used the N word, what a crock, what did that have to do with anything. As one black detective later remarked he couldn't understand why Mark was that stupid since all detectives in South Central used the N word.




Mar 31, 2012 -- 9:34AM, Fodaoson wrote:

In the United States, everyone is presumed innocent until proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, guilty, by a Jury of peers, or a Judge or by confession in a court of law.  OJ was found not guilty by a Jury so he is not guilty.  


Until this cse goes to court, if it does, will evidence of his guilt be presented. Now the public just knows snippets of what occurred. Most of the conclusions drawn by BN posters ae unfounded , and a lot of wrong information is being posted.  George Zimmerman was licensed by the state of Florida to carry a concealed weapon. 


911 operators are not law enforcement officers, they are a phone answering service. There instructions are advisory as they are not on the scene and do not know the situation. 


Does any poster know  how long and where Zimmereman had observed the young man? Do you know if he had exhibited  suspicious behavior ?  Maybe he had thrown a rock at a street light.  What has been occurring in the neighborhood in the  recent past/ Did it involved a young man or a group of them?  


Until a jury is convinced  Zimmerman is innocent.     




 


A voice of reason! Will wonders never cease! That's been my point on every Zimmerman thread, but the hangman's siren call for the general public apparently is sweet.........


academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/crim...


The recent verdict against Orenthal James ("O. J.") Simpson in the civil case raised renewed cries of racial bias in the criminal case, bias discussed in the media and in the private conversations of White America. The O. J. jurors in the criminal case, it was said, acted out of racial solidarity because most of the jurors were Black. Alternatively, the jurors knew of O. J.'s guilt but wanted to "send a message" to police to halt racist practices in enforcing the law. Still others saw the original verdict as evidence of Black gullibility, emotionality, even stupidity, in the face of overwhelming evidence of guilt. The civil verdict, in which a predominantly White jury voted against O. J., seemed to vindicate the anti-criminal-jury-verdict sentiments. Indeed, new evidence, including O. J.'s own testimony, caused many African-Americans who originally believed in O. J.'s innocence to change their minds.


And at last check....OJ is still looking for the 'real' killer....Undecided.......

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 1:42PM #193
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

A more detailed investigation could easily show what the DA concluded--that there was not enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a crime.


The possibility exists that the two men struggled to get hold of Zimmerman's gun which discharged during the struggle. Some reports have stated that's what happened. So, does that mean that because it was Zimmerman's gun, he shot Martin and should be arrested? Hardly.


 

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 2:06PM #194
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

I doubt this will satisfy the lynch mobs.


entertainment.verizon.com/news/read.php?...

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 4:29PM #195
TPaine
Posts: 9,233

Mar 31, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Marcion wrote:


I doubt this will satisfy the lynch mobs.


entertainment.verizon.com/news/read.php?...



So now people who want the case investigated by a grand jury or have Zimmerman tried by a jury of his peers are a lynch mob? I always though that the lynch mob members were the ones that approved of vigilantism.

"It is always to be taken for granted, that those who oppose an equality of rights never mean the exclusion should take place on themselves." -- Thomas Paine: Dissertations on First Principles of Government (July 7, 1795)
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 4:41PM #196
DotNotInOz
Posts: 6,833

While the special prosecutor may decide to bring this to a grand jury to settle the immense uproar over it, the fact remains that even that may not determine that Zimmerman did anything in violation of the law. He evidently made a number of bad judgments, but we can't be positive as yet that any one of those constituted a criminal act.


This whole thing deserves the label "Casey Anthony redux," I swear.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 4:55PM #197
rabello
Posts: 20,468

Mar 31, 2012 -- 9:52AM, Esdraelon wrote:


A voice of reason! Will wonders never cease! That's been my point on every Zimmerman thread, but the hangman's siren call for the general public apparently is sweet.........




If you would listen to the 9-1-1 tapes, you will find out that Zimmerman didn't accuse Martin of throwing rocks or anything else of the sort.   What he DID say is that the kid was just walking around, and it looked to Zimmerman that he was up to no good, that he -- Zimmerman -- was tired of "them" always getting away with it, and that the kid who was just walking around was "entering" from the back entrance, the "f'ing coon'.


What more do you want to decide that maybe, just maybe, Martin was actually a good kid and that the hero of his neighborhood, Zimmerman, was wrong.


What I read is that it was 6 min from the end of the Zimmerman's 9-1-1 dispatcher tape to the gun shot.


Some of us -- and I will acknowledge that it is just some of us, do not believe that a civilian should have a "right" to shoot a kid dead for walking to a residence he had a right to be at after buying candy and a drink at a convenience store.  Some of us do not believe that a civilian should be able to claim "self defense" after killing someone and have absolutely no investigation done to check the veracity of the claim.  There are so many holes in Zimmerman's claims that the lack of an investigation is already an atrocity.  Some of us do believe in innocent till proven guilty, something Zimmerman obviously DOESN'T believe in when it comes to "f'ing coons'.


It's bad enough when cops shoot an unarmed person who was doing nothing wrong.  At least those cops get desk duty while an investigation is conducted to see if it was an unjustified shooting.  Zimmerman, on the other hand, gets a pass just because some people believe with all their hearts in Shoot First/Ask Questions Later aka Have Gun/Will Travel philosophy, so sure or unconcerned as they are that no innocent person will ever be a victim of such sloppy laws. 




 

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 5:03PM #198
rabello
Posts: 20,468

Mar 31, 2012 -- 4:41PM, DotNotInOz wrote:


While the special prosecutor may decide to bring this to a grand jury to settle the immense uproar over it, the fact remains that even that may not determine that Zimmerman did anything in violation of the law. He evidently made a number of bad judgments, but we can't be positive as yet that any one of those constituted a criminal act.


This whole thing deserves the label "Casey Anthony redux," I swear.




Yes, the problem is with that immoral law, Stand Your Ground.   It allows paranoids like Zimmerman who base their opinons on what somebody looks like to kill and then claim "self defense".   I feel sorry for those people who are unable to move away from states that are so stuck in the past that they allow shoot first/ask questions later frontierism.   Especially those who are highest risk becasue of what they look like.


I think it's nothing like Casey Anthony.  For one thing, we have 9-1-1 tapes, eyewitnesses and a body with no injuries except a bullet hole to the chest, a bag if skittles and a can of tea on the body, and a parent in a residence who was waiting for the dead kid to return. 


I realize it is difficult to admit that there can still be a such thing as racism and lynching in modern day America, but this case is much more like the Emmett Till case, not Casey Anthony.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 5:12PM #199
rabello
Posts: 20,468

Mar 30, 2012 -- 10:58PM, arielg wrote:


I wish there was more discussions about the elephant in the room: guns and why it is so easy to go around carrying one and using them to "solve" these kinds of problems. 


There may be a lot of interpretations regardings  motivations, frames of minds and attitudes people have about race, safety and other issues, but there  is nothing unclear about the usual outcomes of accepting violence as an acceptable way to deal with conflicts.




Zimmerman had a history of criminal charges and domestic violence and yet nobody questions his "right" to carry a concealed weapon and then use it after he starts a fight with somebody he assumes is "up to no good" because he's just "walking around"


Wild Wild Wild West America.  Makes us all look bad even those of us who have to live with having this anachronistic cr*p shoved down our throats.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2012 - 6:03PM #200
teilhard
Posts: 50,086

The only "Vigilante" in THIS Story was/is Mr. Zimmerman, AKA, "The Night Stalker" ..


Mar 31, 2012 -- 4:29PM, TPaine wrote:


Mar 31, 2012 -- 2:06PM, Marcion wrote:


I doubt this will satisfy the lynch mobs.


entertainment.verizon.com/news/read.php?...



So now people who want the case investigated by a grand jury or have Zimmerman tried by a jury of his peers are a lynch mob? I always though that the lynch mob members were the ones that approved of vigilantism.





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