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Switch to Forum Live View Marine facing dismissal
3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 9:07AM #1
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

 Marine Sgt. Gary Stein started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party to encourage fellow service members to exercise their free speech rights. He declared a few weeks ago that he would not follow the unlawful orders of the commander in chief. Stein also criticized Defense Secretary Leon Panetta for his comments on Syria.


HE is a marine and a tea partier  and I just clicked like on his facebook page , what's this world coming to, but when a person is right,they are right, you shouldn't have to give up your constitutional rights when you pledge to serve and uphold the constitution.


I know there will be people at this forum will disagree , they will mumble someting about military blah, blah, blah, but like that Oldsmobile commercial this isn't your father's military anymore. 

www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57402088/ma...
 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 10:14AM #2
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,020

Re: " He declared a few weeks ago that he would not follow the unlawful orders of the commander in chief."


 


Is this that birther a-hole?


 


Did he show HOW or WHY the Commander-in-Chief's orders are "unlawful", apart from his idiotic 'belief' that The President is not an American?


 


How did the idiots get this much influence in America?

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 10:25AM #3
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,393

Mar 23, 2012 -- 10:14AM, Do_unto_others wrote:


Re: " He declared a few weeks ago that he would not follow the unlawful orders of the commander in chief."


 


Is this that birther a-hole?


 


Did he show HOW or WHY the Commander-in-Chief's orders are "unlawful", apart from his idiotic 'belief' that The President is not an American?


 


How did the idiots get this much influence in America?





According to the article, he's specifically talking about this instance:


Stein said his statement was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan.


In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.


It sounds like he's referring to the NDAA, which gives the administration, any CIC, and the military the right to detain US citizens without charges and without due process.


Either way, he was in violation of the rules of his job and he should be willing to accept punishment for breaking them.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 1:18PM #4
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,946

I, like every other veteran, know that when we put on the uniform, we submit to the authority of the UCMJ.  Under that document, there is no right to freedom of speech.


Under the UCMJ, if one invokes the clause regarding 'lawful orders' the burden is on the soldier, marine, sailor, or airman who makes the claim that an order is 'not lawful'.  He will have an opportunity to make his case during his court martial.  Failure to make the case before a panel of career officers will result in discipline.

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 3:30PM #5
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

If I was still on active duty, and this guy was one of my soldiers, I'd have already started an article 32 invesigation and I'd do all I could to get him kicked out of the army with a General discharge. That, by the way, does NOT screw up his life, but he's not entitled to an Honorable one based on his flagrant violation of regulations he was well aware of. And while the Article 32 investigation was going on, if he was in any leradership position I'd remove him from it and put him in some job where he had zero supervisory responsibility over other soldiers (and yes, a commander CAN do that!!!).


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2012 - 1:08AM #6
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Talk $#!+ about your boss, and you can get fired!

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2012 - 1:11AM #7
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

Mar 24, 2012 -- 1:08AM, Roodog wrote:


Talk $#!+ about your boss, and you can get fired!




That too Cool.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2012 - 12:15PM #8
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

Mar 23, 2012 -- 1:18PM, Unworthyone wrote:


I, like every other veteran, know that when we put on the uniform, we submit to the authority of the UCMJ.  Under that document, there is no right to freedom of speech.


Under the UCMJ, if one invokes the clause regarding 'lawful orders' the burden is on the soldier, marine, sailor, or airman who makes the claim that an order is 'not lawful'.  He will have an opportunity to make his case during his court martial.  Failure to make the case before a panel of career officers will result in discipline.





But does that not include to support the constitution and defend the country from enemies both foreign and domestic?


A message to every police officer and soldier

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV0pl9yiURY&feat...

The chain of obedience

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcLNoxiPBk

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2012 - 12:51PM #9
Unworthyone
Posts: 2,946

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:15PM, ted08721 wrote:


Mar 23, 2012 -- 1:18PM, Unworthyone wrote:


I, like every other veteran, know that when we put on the uniform, we submit to the authority of the UCMJ.  Under that document, there is no right to freedom of speech.


Under the UCMJ, if one invokes the clause regarding 'lawful orders' the burden is on the soldier, marine, sailor, or airman who makes the claim that an order is 'not lawful'.  He will have an opportunity to make his case during his court martial.  Failure to make the case before a panel of career officers will result in discipline.





But does that not include to support the constitution and defend the country from enemies both foreign and domestic?


A message to every police officer and soldier

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV0pl9yiURY&feat...

The chain of obedience

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcLNoxiPBk




Disobeying orders in the U.S. military because one believes the president is 'not really' the president, is without a doubt, the stupidest move ever made.  This marine will be disciplined.  You can bet on it.


The fact is, this marine has never actually received a direct order from Obama.  He has, however, received orders from officers and NCOs in his chain of command.  Unless, he proves that every one of them has no authority to issue lawful orders to him (like that is going to happen), he will receive a 'less than honorable discharge.' Personally, I would like to see him serve some time in Ft. Leavenworth as well.


It is one thing to let these birther nutjobs wander free in society, but we cannot tolerate them infiltrating our military.

I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend.  Thomas Jefferson

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein

You can get anything you want out of life if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Zig Ziglar

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/29/opinion/why-i-m-for-the-brady-bill.html
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2012 - 1:02PM #10
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:51PM, Unworthyone wrote:


Mar 24, 2012 -- 12:15PM, ted08721 wrote:


Mar 23, 2012 -- 1:18PM, Unworthyone wrote:


I, like every other veteran, know that when we put on the uniform, we submit to the authority of the UCMJ.  Under that document, there is no right to freedom of speech.


Under the UCMJ, if one invokes the clause regarding 'lawful orders' the burden is on the soldier, marine, sailor, or airman who makes the claim that an order is 'not lawful'.  He will have an opportunity to make his case during his court martial.  Failure to make the case before a panel of career officers will result in discipline.





But does that not include to support the constitution and defend the country from enemies both foreign and domestic?


A message to every police officer and soldier

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV0pl9yiURY&feat...

The chain of obedience

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NcLNoxiPBk




Disobeying orders in the U.S. military because one believes the president is 'not really' the president, is without a doubt, the stupidest move ever made.  This marine will be disciplined.  You can bet on it.


The fact is, this marine has never actually received a direct order from Obama.  He has, however, received orders from officers and NCOs in his chain of command.  Unless, he proves that every one of them has no authority to issue lawful oders to him (like that is going to happen), he will receive a 'less than honorable discharge.' Personally, I would like to see him serve some time in Ft. Leavenworth as well.


It is one thing to let these birther nutjobs wander free in society, but we cannot tolerate them infiltrating our military.




I think the real question to all police and military should be did the oath you swore to really mean anything to you.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4AKkF97fcE&feat...

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