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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 12:50AM #11
ted08721
Posts: 3,752

Mar 22, 2012 -- 11:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:

news.yahoo.com/learn-student-loan-forgiv...


On March 8, Congressman Hansen Clarke (D-Mich.) introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. The act would create a new 10/10 Loan Repayment Plan (with new forgiveness provisions), cap interest rates for all federal loans, greatly improve Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and convert some borrowers' private loans to federal loans.

There is more information in the article about the details.

I doubt this will go anywhere, but I have to say that I simply do not agree with or support this. Before anyone hollers, I still have around $25k in student loan debt so it's not as though I don't understand how hard it is to pay them back. However, if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?




It is a horrible idea, that directly subsidizes those that go to college with money from everyone else, including those that choose not to go. It is yet another example of encouraging bad faith efforts and moral hazard. I too have lots of student loans, so I understand the costs, and things could be done to help, including allowing at least a portion to be declared in bankruptcy, but this is a truly dreadful plan.




Was it a good idea to subsidize the banks?

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 12:54AM #12
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,571

What does the bank thing have to do with the price of tea in China?

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 1:09AM #13
Find1Answer
Posts: 7,261

Mar 22, 2012 -- 11:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:

Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:

news.yahoo.com/learn-student-loan-forgiv...


On March 8, Congressman Hansen Clarke (D-Mich.) introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. The act would create a new 10/10 Loan Repayment Plan (with new forgiveness provisions), cap interest rates for all federal loans, greatly improve Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and convert some borrowers' private loans to federal loans.

There is more information in the article about the details.

I doubt this will go anywhere, but I have to say that I simply do not agree with or support this. Before anyone hollers, I still have around $25k in student loan debt so it's not as though I don't understand how hard it is to pay them back. However, if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?




It is a horrible idea, that directly subsidizes those that go to college with money from everyone else, including those that choose not to go. It is yet another example of encouraging bad faith efforts and moral hazard. I too have lots of student loans, so I understand the costs, and things could be done to help, including allowing at least a portion to be declared in bankruptcy, but this is a truly dreadful plan.


I have not read the act but I recall a speech that Obama made about this issue.    He said that some of the student loan industry was predatory and he aimed to reform the system.    He said that converting private loans into federal loans would generate interest to be paid back into the system.        What he suggested was that his proposal was self funded.

"I don’t care if the federal government is telling me to buy my employees Jack Daniel’s or birth control. What gives them the right to tell me that I have to do that? That’s my issue, that’s what I object to, and that’s the beginning and end of the story."

This hint that Potter had merely swaddled an anti-government rant within a "religious" blanket illustrates the main problem with Justice Samuel Alito's majority opinion in Hobby Lobby: it takes claims of religious scruples for granted.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-expanded-hobby-lobby-20140702-column.html#page=1
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 5:12AM #14
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:


... if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?



It is about society at large, not individual cases.


The question is whether the society you live in should allow you to develop intellectually, irrespective of whether or not there will be financial benefits for you.


I say: yes. This is where freedom starts, socially speaking. When you can rely on society to pursue your own happiness.


Mar 22, 2012 -- 5:15PM, arielg wrote:


Those who complain about how hard it is to pay  loans for education  should work digging ditches and picking strawberries for a while to appreciate the advantages of an  education.



Many do appreciate the advantages, and don't complain. Nonetheless, a society that requires loans and financial risk for developing your potential is structurally unjust. There is nothing wrong with having a more just society.


Mar 23, 2012 -- 12:54AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


What does the bank thing have to do with the price of tea in China?



It is banks who give loans, duh! But go on and talk about China, while we are discussing student loans...

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 9:12AM #15
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,115

Mar 23, 2012 -- 1:09AM, Find1Answer wrote:

Mar 22, 2012 -- 11:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:

news.yahoo.com/learn-student-loan-forgiv...


On March 8, Congressman Hansen Clarke (D-Mich.) introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. The act would create a new 10/10 Loan Repayment Plan (with new forgiveness provisions), cap interest rates for all federal loans, greatly improve Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and convert some borrowers' private loans to federal loans.

There is more information in the article about the details.

I doubt this will go anywhere, but I have to say that I simply do not agree with or support this. Before anyone hollers, I still have around $25k in student loan debt so it's not as though I don't understand how hard it is to pay them back. However, if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?




It is a horrible idea, that directly subsidizes those that go to college with money from everyone else, including those that choose not to go. It is yet another example of encouraging bad faith efforts and moral hazard. I too have lots of student loans, so I understand the costs, and things could be done to help, including allowing at least a portion to be declared in bankruptcy, but this is a truly dreadful plan.




I have not read the act but I recall a speech that Obama made about this issue.    He said that some of the student loan industry was predatory and he aimed to reform the system.    He said that converting private loans into federal loans would generate interest to be paid back into the system.        What he suggested was that his proposal was self funded.





If that were the only part of his plan, I'd actually have no problem with it. It's the addition of the complete debt forgiveness that is wrong and forces the taxpayers (many of whom did go through the struggle of paying off their own loans or just didn't go to college) to cover the costs of someone else's education.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 10:34AM #16
Druac
Posts: 11,509

Mar 22, 2012 -- 7:55PM, ted08721 wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 6:40PM, Druac wrote:


It isn't easy, but a college degree is not necessary to have a good career or get a decent technical job in America. Sure, if you want to command a top salary, and your goal is to make as much money as possible, I would strongly suggest you start with a degree.


Otherwise, it is completely doable and can actually be very rewarding to be a self educated member of this society…it also helps in ones goal to be a free-thinker…if that happens to be important to you...it was to me.


- Me
Self Educated Programmer & It Manager/Webmaster





For the hell of it I google search a Webmaster job
And as I thought it  had some heavy requirements including a college degree, which tells me  there is something that would separate you from your average 18 year old kid coming out of high school today.

I do know a person without a college degree that has played a major role in IT for some of the larger Wall Street type banks without a college education but he is exceptionally smart and sharp and happened to be in the right place at the right time to get noticed; he was well into the six figure salary, I recall he was involved when the towers went down on 911 he was involved with setting up some kind of micro wave system across the river to the Jersey side, I don't know much detail but it sounded impressive and again this was from someone without a college degree .

Education


Bachelor of Science or Master's Degree in Computer Science, Engineering or Mathematics.


Post Secondary Web Design




Required Experience


Typically this requires 5 years or more years experience in the following

  • Proven Webmaster Track Record
  • Content Management
  • Java, JScript, .NET, Python, Perl and other Development Experience
  • HTML, Ajax and Flash Experience



Like I said, it isn't easy...but definitely doable, if you are willing to work for it. The way I did it was to start my own side business as a hobby...I excelled at it and compiled my experience and references that way. I did it for 10 years, which gave me 10 years of experience in all of the above and then some. Again, you will not be able to demand a top salary, if that is what is important to you. But there are plenty of businesses out there that were willing to give me a chance and it proved to be to their benefit as well as mine. They had plenty of choices to, mostly from recently graduated students with no real world experience or on the job training…they chose me because I could hit the ground running for them.

Jesus Is My Savior...He Saves Me From REALITY!
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We created god in our own image and likeness!
[George Carlin]
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"Reason & Logic" - A Damn Good Slogan!
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg, an American physicist
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 11:41AM #17
Kwinters
Posts: 21,905

Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:

news.yahoo.com/learn-student-loan-forgiv...


On March 8, Congressman Hansen Clarke (D-Mich.) introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. The act would create a new 10/10 Loan Repayment Plan (with new forgiveness provisions), cap interest rates for all federal loans, greatly improve Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and convert some borrowers' private loans to federal loans.

There is more information in the article about the details.

I doubt this will go anywhere, but I have to say that I simply do not agree with or support this. Before anyone hollers, I still have around $25k in student loan debt so it's not as though I don't understand how hard it is to pay them back. However, if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?




What do you object to? Capping interest rates? Lenders still profit from borrowers.  Improved Loan Forgiveness - did you know that the banks wrote language that disallows student loans to be included in bankruptcy? Converting private loans to federal? Since those loans are backed by the federal government there is no good reason that the borrows should pay the money to the government that guarentees it.


After all, the government loses money when it pays student loans in default off.  It makes sense that the revenues to cover those costs are other borrowers' interest payments rather than tax payers, don't you think?

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 11:49AM #18
Kwinters
Posts: 21,905

Mar 22, 2012 -- 11:44PM, aarroottoonn wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:

news.yahoo.com/learn-student-loan-forgiv...


On March 8, Congressman Hansen Clarke (D-Mich.) introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. The act would create a new 10/10 Loan Repayment Plan (with new forgiveness provisions), cap interest rates for all federal loans, greatly improve Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and convert some borrowers' private loans to federal loans.

There is more information in the article about the details.

I doubt this will go anywhere, but I have to say that I simply do not agree with or support this. Before anyone hollers, I still have around $25k in student loan debt so it's not as though I don't understand how hard it is to pay them back. However, if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?




It is a horrible idea, that directly subsidizes those that go to college with money from everyone else, including those that choose not to go. It is yet another example of encouraging bad faith efforts and moral hazard. I too have lots of student loans, so I understand the costs, and things could be done to help, including allowing at least a portion to be declared in bankruptcy, but this is a truly dreadful plan.




Out of curiosity, do you know how the bill is to be funded?  I do.  I am just wondering if you made any effort to find out before you started writing the above nonsense.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 11:51AM #19
loveontheair
Posts: 4,057

Mar 23, 2012 -- 10:34AM, Druac wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 7:55PM, ted08721 wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 6:40PM, Druac wrote:


It isn't easy, but a college degree is not necessary to have a good career or get a decent technical job in America. Sure, if you want to command a top salary, and your goal is to make as much money as possible, I would strongly suggest you start with a degree.


Otherwise, it is completely doable and can actually be very rewarding to be a self educated member of this society…it also helps in ones goal to be a free-thinker…if that happens to be important to you...it was to me.


- Me
Self Educated Programmer & It Manager/Webmaster





For the hell of it I google search a Webmaster job
And as I thought it  had some heavy requirements including a college degree, which tells me  there is something that would separate you from your average 18 year old kid coming out of high school today.

I do know a person without a college degree that has played a major role in IT for some of the larger Wall Street type banks without a college education but he is exceptionally smart and sharp and happened to be in the right place at the right time to get noticed; he was well into the six figure salary, I recall he was involved when the towers went down on 911 he was involved with setting up some kind of micro wave system across the river to the Jersey side, I don't know much detail but it sounded impressive and again this was from someone without a college degree .

Education


Bachelor of Science or Master's Degree in Computer Science, Engineering or Mathematics.


Post Secondary Web Design




Required Experience


Typically this requires 5 years or more years experience in the following

  • Proven Webmaster Track Record
  • Content Management
  • Java, JScript, .NET, Python, Perl and other Development Experience
  • HTML, Ajax and Flash Experience



Like I said, it isn't easy...but definitely doable, if you are willing to work for it. The way I did it was to start my own side business as a hobby...I excelled at it and compiled my experience and references that way. I did it for 10 years, which gave me 10 years of experience in all of the above and then some. Again, you will not be able to demand a top salary, if that is what is important to you. But there are plenty of businesses out there that were willing to give me a chance and it proved to be to their benefit as well as mine. They had plenty of choices to, mostly from recently graduated students with no real world experience or on the job training…they chose me because I could hit the ground running for them.





Hello,



+1



love

Good works will never produce faith, but faith will always produce good works. loveontheair
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 11:52AM #20
Kwinters
Posts: 21,905

Mar 23, 2012 -- 9:12AM, Girlchristian wrote:



If that were the only part of his plan, I'd actually have no problem with it. It's the addition of the complete debt forgiveness that is wrong and forces the taxpayers (many of whom did go through the struggle of paying off their own loans or just didn't go to college) to cover the costs of someone else's education.




How do you respond to these advantages of the proposal?


'The bill would allow existing borrowers whose educational loan debt exceeds their income to break free from the crushing interest rates of private loans by converting their private loan debt into federal Direct Loans, then enrolling their new federal loans into the 10/10 program.


'The bill would reward graduates for entering public service professions like teaching and firefighting. It would also provide incentives for medical professionals to work in underserved communities. It would reduce the Public Service Loan Forgiveness requirement to 5 years from its current 10 years.'


'While current borrowers would be eligible for full forgiveness under the plan, future borrowers would be subject to a $45,520 cap on forgiveness (based on the average overall cost of a four-year degree at a public university).


The aim is to incentivize students to be mindful of educational costs and for colleges and universities to control tuition increases.'



(hansenclarke.house.gov/sites/hansenclark...)

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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