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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 11:55AM #21
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

Mar 23, 2012 -- 11:41AM, Kwinters wrote:


Mar 22, 2012 -- 2:50PM, Girlchristian wrote:

news.yahoo.com/learn-student-loan-forgiv...


On March 8, Congressman Hansen Clarke (D-Mich.) introduced H.R. 4170, the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012. The act would create a new 10/10 Loan Repayment Plan (with new forgiveness provisions), cap interest rates for all federal loans, greatly improve Public Service Loan Forgiveness, and convert some borrowers' private loans to federal loans.

There is more information in the article about the details.

I doubt this will go anywhere, but I have to say that I simply do not agree with or support this. Before anyone hollers, I still have around $25k in student loan debt so it's not as though I don't understand how hard it is to pay them back. However, if you borrow money then you should pay it back, period. Those with student loans have multiple opportunities for deferrment due to financial hardship.

Thoughts?




What do you object to? Capping interest rates? Lenders still profit from borrowers.  Improved Loan Forgiveness - did you know that the banks wrote language that disallows student loans to be included in bankruptcy? Converting private loans to federal? Since those loans are backed by the federal government there is no good reason that the borrows should pay the money to the government that guarentees it.


After all, the government loses money when it pays student loans in default off.  It makes sense that the revenues to cover those costs are other borrowers' interest payments rather than tax payers, don't you think?




"did you know that the banks wrote language that disallows student loans to be included in bankruptcy?"

that is key along with the fact they can collect student loan payments from social security,  even from disability, you can be lying on your death bed from an accident or disease and they still get their money upfront.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 12:21PM #22
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

Mar 23, 2012 -- 12:54AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


What does the bank thing have to do with the price of tea in China?





The simple answer to your question is that people deserve a break before the big banks.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 12:31PM #23
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,393

Mar 23, 2012 -- 11:52AM, Kwinters wrote:


Mar 23, 2012 -- 9:12AM, Girlchristian wrote:



If that were the only part of his plan, I'd actually have no problem with it. It's the addition of the complete debt forgiveness that is wrong and forces the taxpayers (many of whom did go through the struggle of paying off their own loans or just didn't go to college) to cover the costs of someone else's education.




How do you respond to these advantages of the proposal?


'The bill would allow existing borrowers whose educational loan debt exceeds their income to break free from the crushing interest rates of private loans by converting their private loan debt into federal Direct Loans, then enrolling their new federal loans into the 10/10 program.


'The bill would reward graduates for entering public service professions like teaching and firefighting. It would also provide incentives for medical professionals to work in underserved communities. It would reduce the Public Service Loan Forgiveness requirement to 5 years from its current 10 years.'


'While current borrowers would be eligible for full forgiveness under the plan, future borrowers would be subject to a $45,520 cap on forgiveness (based on the average overall cost of a four-year degree at a public university).


The aim is to incentivize students to be mindful of educational costs and for colleges and universities to control tuition increases.'



(hansenclarke.house.gov/sites/hansenclark...)





How does allowing a borrower to change the terms of their loan just because and/or be forgiven their loan early incentivize students to be mindful of educational costs? If anything it teaches them that they don't have to be mindful because someone will bail them out.


 

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 1:02PM #24
arielg
Posts: 9,116



Mar 22, 2012 --  6:15PM, arielg wrote:

Those who complain about how hard it is to pay  loans for education  should work digging ditches and picking strawberries for a while to appreciate the advantages of an  education.




Many do appreciate the advantages, and don't complain. Nonetheless, a society that requires loans and financial risk for developing your potential is structurally unjust. There is nothing wrong with having a more just society. Chariklea


I don't see what is unjust about facilitating the education of someone who is going to profit from it for their whole life.  Many people who would be paying for it, "society", don't have the priviledges they will get.


"company with one to nine employees typically has a salary range of $49,410 to $86,105, but a company with 20,000 to 49,999 employees will pay between $85,305 and $143,026, according to PayScale. Varying areas of specialization also generate salary differences; criminal lawyers bring in between $47,780 and $79,070 compared with real estate attorneys, who earn $53,260 to $117,990 as of December 2010, according to PayScale. Attorneys in private practice will garner salaries ranging from $56,900 to $104,880, but those working for the federal government can start at $69,100 and go up to $115,190 or more."

Read more: What is the Average Starting Salary for a Law Student? | eHow.com www.ehow.com/info_7757026_average-starti...


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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 1:22PM #25
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

Mar 22, 2012 -- 6:40PM, Druac wrote:


It isn't easy, but a college degree is not necessary to have a good career or get a decent technical job in America. Sure, if you want to command a top salary, and your goal is to make as much money as possible, I would strongly suggest you start with a degree.


Otherwise, it is completely doable and can actually be very rewarding to be a self educated member of this society…it also helps in ones goal to be a free-thinker…if that happens to be important to you...it was to me.


- Me
Self Educated Programmer & It Manager/Webmaster




You are correct and a College Education should not be seen as “job training”.  If you want Job training go to  a Technical school,  take an internship , an  apprenticeship.  Most College Graduates are apprentices for the first year or so on a job.  They are not called apprentice or internes but they function in a similar manner.  The difference being the College graduate has the theoretical knowledge and critical thinking skills  to learn faster and “deeper”.  Major and important skills and knowledge acquired in a college education is learning(better) how to learn and critical thinking.   

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 1:37PM #26
LeahOne
Posts: 16,402

Mar 22, 2012 -- 5:15PM, arielg wrote:


Those who complain about how hard it is to pay  loans for education  should work digging ditches and picking strawberries for a while to appreciate the advantages of an  education.





I spent the two longest weeks of my life working in a bindery for a temp agency one summer - I ran back to school as fast as I could!  Turned out we temps got paid more than the full-time workers (not surprising since we had no 'benefits' but as a HS kid I didn't know about that!) - and if management even suspected you *thought* the word 'union', they'd find a way to fire you.


It was hot, noisy and dirty.  And you had to stand the whole day long.  But at least it wasn't very dangerous.....


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 2:18PM #27
ted08721
Posts: 3,757

The link I have listed below has some interesting and useful info, it includes a video done on the subject by ABC NEWS

www.webpronews.com/hansen-clarke-congres...

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 2:51PM #28
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Mar 23, 2012 -- 1:02PM, arielg wrote:


I don't see what is unjust about facilitating the education of someone who is going to profit from it for their whole life.  Many people who would be paying for it, "society", don't have the priviledges they will get.



It is not sure that a university eduction will automatically make you rich or let you profit in other ways. This is a quite wrong idea. Another quite wrong idea is that others who choose against a university education for themselves would therefore be exempt of showing solidarity with the intellectually more ambitious. We cannot all quit school with 16.

tl;dr
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2012 - 4:52PM #29
Erey
Posts: 18,940

I do know several people that took out student loans that exceeded the cost of their tuition and college related expenses and choose to live off the loan. 


So you are not just excusing the cost of education, you are also excusing someone's spending money, etc.  A few of these people were deliberatly "taking it easy" and choosing not to work because they COULD live off the loan. 


I worked my way through college and would not have taken out a loan for living expenses.  I did not pick strawberries but I did wait tables and tend bar. 


I also attended a local university that was not expensive.  I am not high on paying for someone's big 250K Sociology or Theatre Arts degree from Northwestern or Brown University.   If we are going to start doing that then I would love nothing more than to drop out of the work force for a few years to study history or art for free. 



I do want to encourage people to pursue their dreams.  I think tuition reimbursement is a fine idea for in demand professions like teaching or medicine.  I think we should have student loans.


I also think there is nothing wrong with attending community college which is much cheaper and can go a long way for people to get an affordable education.  I think if you can sucessfully complete your first two years of school then you are probably a pretty good gamble for full student loans if you need them. 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 25, 2012 - 10:06AM #30
Luvjust4U
Posts: 815

Mar 22, 2012 -- 5:15PM, arielg wrote:


Those who complain about how hard it is to pay  loans for education  should work digging ditches and picking strawberries for a while to appreciate the advantages of an  education.





Complaining about loan debt is not an automatic implication people do not appreciate getting an education. Education is a necessity that benefits the overall condtion of a society if done with equity and honesty. If students choose a profession that helps reduce risk factors for children and families, and supports the educational, financial, and social infrastructure like teaching, human social and civil services, criminal justice, nursing, civil engineers etc., loans should be replaced with grants and stipends. Loans should be an available options for students with families, homes and cars who may need to free up time to focus on academics.


Other industiralized countries have governments where the government officials show by legislation how important education is so their citizens can get a college education using tax dollars. The graduate gets a job and becomes a tax payer ina a high tax bracket as opposed to American society where we graduate, have no jobs, but have high debt to income ratios which places many Americans in the lower tax bracket and at risk of not being able to paybakc student loans, thus hurting the overall economy. This nation seems stuck in stupid over the ideas citizens can actually get benefits from having access to the tax pool. The money spent fighting in the last few wars could pay off all student loans college and fund investing in future America's students' education'.


Companies and corporations paying for students returning to get higher is an excellent way for capitalists to invest in educating Americans without the graduates be burdened with debt.

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