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Switch to Forum Live View Netanyahu - you also refused to bomb Auschwitz?
2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 8:30AM #1
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,303
We heard all the niceties about the AIPAC, but is it a balanced view?
Did anyone notice the two letters Netanyahu produced at AIPAC meeting or ask the purpose of him doing so? Or that he compared Iran ro Nazis, and Iran's nuclear program to Auschwitz?

Netanyahu produced copies of two letters he said he keeps in his desk, between the World Jewish Congress and the War Department in 1944, when the WJC called on the United States to bomb the extermination camp at Auschwitz, and the War Department refused.

The letters he read are widely cited among American Jews as a coded statement of anti-Semitism at the highest level of American society at that time. The suggestion was clear: America didn’t act the last time either. Had they done it wouldn't thousands more be killed by bombing? Had they done it wouldn't they be accused of anti-Semitism?

After everything America has and is doing for Jews/Israel/Zionism, to be this ungrateful and wave accusatory flag in order to get what it wants is unbelivable.

from PBS: WORLD JEWISH CONGRESS August 9, 1944 Hon. John J. McCloy Under Secretary of War War Department Washington, D.C. My dear Mr. Secretary: I beg to submit to your consideration the following excerpt from a message which we received under date of July 29 from Mr. Ernest Frischer of the Czechoslovak State Council through the War Refugee Board: “I believe that destruction of gas chambers and crematoria in Oswiecim by bombing would have a certain effect now. Germans are now exhuming and burning corpses in an effort to conceal their crimes. This could be prevented by destruction of crematoria and then Germans might possibly stop further mass exterminations especially since so little time is left to them. Bombing of railway communications in this same area would also be of importance and of military interest.” Sincerely yours, A. Leon Kubowitzki Head, Rescue Department

14 August 1944

Dear Mr. Kubowitski: I refer to your letter of August 9 in which you request consideration of a proposal made by Mr. Ernest Frischer that certain installations and railroad centers be bombed. The War Department had been approached by the War Refugee Board, which raised the question of the practicability of this suggestion. After a study it became apparent that such an operation could be executed only by the diversion of considerable air support essential to the success of our forces now engaged in decisive operations elsewhere and would in any case be of such doubtful efficacy that it would not warrant the use of our resources. There has been considerable opinion to the effect that such an effort, even if practicable, might provoke even more vindictive action by the Germans. The War Department fully appreciates the humanitarian motives which promoted the suggested operation, but for the reasons stated above it has not been felt that it can or should be undertaken, at least at this time. Sincerely, John J. McCloy Assistant Secretary of War
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 8:46AM #2
LeahOne
Posts: 16,240

Dos, a fact is a fact.  The attitude of 'State' - the US State Dep't - towards Jewish people during WW2 is well-documented.  Basically 'State' officials made it their 'policy' to drag their feet enforcing US Law about rescuing the *relatives of US citizens* from the Nazis - because of their own prejudices.


As to the 'gratitude' you think Jews/Zionists should express:  we are AMERICANS whose goverrment conspired with other governments (W.Europe & Russia!) to let our relatives be murdered in so many horrible ways and couldn't even be bothered to let them have a quick death instead of torture & starvation.


The allegations are TRUE, and the 'shame' is on the US State Dep't.


Oh, and when you provide your 'source' - is it going to be some 'anonymous' web page on a free hosting site which was only put together in the past day? 

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 8:53AM #3
LeahOne
Posts: 16,240

I have no idea just what incident the OP is supposedly referring to - BUT:


1) Netenyahu is not AIPAC


2) AIPAC is not 100% identical to 'Zionism'


So if you don't like what Bibi had to say - blame Bibi and not the entire membership of every Zionist or Jewish organization.


I don't vote in Israeli elections.


 


Oh, and if you read the accounts by concentration camp surviviors - many of them DID pray the camp would be bombed so that they could either die all at once, or hopefully have a chance to escape.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 10:08AM #4
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

The agenda of the Allies was to defeat the Nazis,period.
The Allies knew of the death camps, for some reason did not make a priority to bomb the railroads leading to them nor the crematoria nor the gas chambers. My personal feeling was that the Allies should have hindered this slaughter of civilians and failed to do so. For this reason I feel the Allies cannot be trusted to govern Jews with justice and compassion. The only solution is for the Jewish people to have their own country where they can practice their faith and culture without recrimination. 

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 4:14PM #5
BDboy
Posts: 5,323

Mar 18, 2012 -- 8:46AM, LeahOne wrote:


Dos, a fact is a fact.  The attitude of 'State' - the US State Dep't - towards Jewish people during WW2 is well-documented.  Basically 'State' officials made it their 'policy' to drag their feet enforcing US Law about rescuing the *relatives of US citizens* from the Nazis - because of their own prejudices.


As to the 'gratitude' you think Jews/Zionists should express:  we are AMERICANS whose goverrment conspired with other governments (W.Europe & Russia!) to let our relatives be murdered in so many horrible ways and couldn't even be bothered to let them have a quick death instead of torture & starvation.


The allegations are TRUE, and the 'shame' is on the US State Dep't.


Oh, and when you provide your 'source' - is it going to be some 'anonymous' web page on a free hosting site which was only put together in the past day? 




 


>>>>>>>> You are right Leah. The US initially even refused to accept boats full of Jews from Europe and sent them back to death and destruction during WWll. Parts of US government and big US corporations also worked with Nazis at some levels.


However since then US turned it around and became "Israel outside of Israel" for Jews. Still promoting and protecting Jews and Jewish interests pretty much "Bending over backwards" and sending aids (Arms, technology, $$ grants etc) every year. So It would be nice if people consider both sides when talking about America.


Therefore showing gratitude does not take anything away .


For example, there are plenty of American Muslims who actively take part in American life at the same time protested immoral war against Iraq (Thankfully many leading Jewish American stood by Muslims at that time). But when it comes to America, they became parts of America and 100% dedicated to America.


In fact this is a difference between a country like USA and India or China. Classically USA allowed peaceful protests of any policies. Respect for "Differences of opinions" makes America strong and unique at the same time.


At the same time many American Muslims helplessly watch American troops killing many innocent families and relatives of them in different parts of the world. 


Despite having such horrible experiences I sadly noticed many leading Jewish intellectuals devoted a lot of time and resources to promote hate against Islam and Muslims in America. When I look over history of Jewish people and how they were persecuted (Just for being Jew!) it is disturbing to watch them engaging in these campaigns in 21st century.


I sincerely hope when our causes are just, we can stand united to protect innocent unarmed people all over the world. No need to go through another war or halocaust to know how bad it is....


Shalom!

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 5:32PM #6
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Hmm, this sounds like genuine bullying. As the reporters at salon.com say...


www.salon.com/2012/03/13/how_netanyahu_t...


But, as Leah indicates, Bibi is hardly representative for Israel when he does this:


“Netanyahu and his government have to stop these hysterical analogies with Iran,” said Kadima party leader Tzipi Livni, adding that they were making Israel, not Iran, the focus of the world’s worries. Channel Two political correspondent Rina Matzliach said that while harping on the Holocaust was a sure winner with AIPAC, it “didn’t help the prime minister overseas, and caused a certain discomfort among the public here.”


It's always good to hear voices of reason.

tl;dr
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 6:55PM #7
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Mar 18, 2012 -- 4:14PM, BDboy wrote:


Mar 18, 2012 -- 8:46AM, LeahOne wrote:


Dos, a fact is a fact.  The attitude of 'State' - the US State Dep't - towards Jewish people during WW2 is well-documented.  Basically 'State' officials made it their 'policy' to drag their feet enforcing US Law about rescuing the *relatives of US citizens* from the Nazis - because of their own prejudices.


As to the 'gratitude' you think Jews/Zionists should express:  we are AMERICANS whose goverrment conspired with other governments (W.Europe & Russia!) to let our relatives be murdered in so many horrible ways and couldn't even be bothered to let them have a quick death instead of torture & starvation.


The allegations are TRUE, and the 'shame' is on the US State Dep't.


Oh, and when you provide your 'source' - is it going to be some 'anonymous' web page on a free hosting site which was only put together in the past day? 




 


>>>>>>>> You are right Leah. The US initially even refused to accept boats full of Jews from Europe and sent them back to death and destruction during WWll. Parts of US government and big US corporations also worked with Nazis at some levels.


However since then US turned it around and became "Israel outside of Israel" for Jews. Still promoting and protecting Jews and Jewish interests pretty much "Bending over backwards" and sending aids (Arms, technology, $$ grants etc) every year. So It would be nice if people consider both sides when talking about America.


Therefore showing gratitude does not take anything away .


For example, there are plenty of American Muslims who actively take part in American life at the same time protested immoral war against Iraq (Thankfully many leading Jewish American stood by Muslims at that time). But when it comes to America, they became parts of America and 100% dedicated to America.


In fact this is a difference between a country like USA and India or China. Classically USA allowed peaceful protests of any policies. Respect for "Differences of opinions" makes America strong and unique at the same time.


At the same time many American Muslims helplessly watch American troops killing many innocent families and relatives of them in different parts of the world. 


Despite having such horrible experiences I sadly noticed many leading Jewish intellectuals devoted a lot of time and resources to promote hate against Islam and Muslims in America. When I look over history of Jewish people and how they were persecuted (Just for being Jew!) it is disturbing to watch them engaging in these campaigns in 21st century.


I sincerely hope when our causes are just, we can stand united to protect innocent unarmed people all over the world. No need to go through another war or halocaust to know how bad it is....


Shalom!





I do not think hatred of Arabs and Muslims in America were as much stirred up by Jewish intellectuals as it was by 19 relatively insignificant Arab men who perpetrated the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York  and Washington.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 7:01PM #8
platoonleader
Posts: 1,148

Mar 18, 2012 -- 5:32PM, CharikIeia wrote:


Hmm, this sounds like genuine bullying. As the reporters at salon.com say...


www.salon.com/2012/03/13/how_netanyahu_t...


But, as Leah indicates, Bibi is hardly representative for Israel when he does this:


“Netanyahu and his government have to stop these hysterical analogies with Iran,” said Kadima party leader Tzipi Livni, adding that they were making Israel, not Iran, the focus of the world’s worries. Channel Two political correspondent Rina Matzliach said that while harping on the Holocaust was a sure winner with AIPAC, it “didn’t help the prime minister overseas, and caused a certain discomfort among the public here.”


It's always good to hear voices of reason.


 


 





It is always humorous to read the posts of some contributors. "It is always good to here the voices of reason"...."Char's" article by Larry Derfner has some problems. Those of us that have read "rattling the cages"Larry Derner for years in the Jerusalem Post would NOT call Larry a "voice of reason". Neither did J Post...they fired him.


The Larry Derfner article quoted Uri Avenery :"Not since Eisenhower was president has Israel ever gone to war without explicit American approval".  They say there are lies, damned lies, and magazine articles. The 1967 Six Day and OP/Focus was initiated without the prior knowledge of the Johnson Administration.


OP/OPERA the Osirik strike which could very well have precipitated hostilities with Iraq or other Arab States was NOT initiated with prior US approval or knowledge. In fact CIA intel "imagery" was used without US approval which later incurred the wrath of US intel chief Bobby Inman


It really helps to know something about what you are writing about

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 7:17PM #9
LeahOne
Posts: 16,240

I find BDBoy's attempts to smear 'many Jewish intellectuals' with the 'inciting Islamophobia' brush repellent.


SOME - not 'many', nor 'most' nor 'leading', perhaps.  I'm still checking through all the details of each of the funds, etc involved to ascertain the accuracy of the allegations.  My perception is the article he linked to was some left-wing extremists screaming bloody murder abotu soem right-wing extremists, people I generally don't even think about (both sets!)


I'm much more concerned with the 'mainstream' than American Taliban and salafists - which is where I'd place Geller et al.  I don't find Geller much more credible than Paul Findley and never read any of that slime if I can avoid it. 

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 18, 2012 - 8:24PM #10
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

I'd agree with Leah.  There is a distinct minority of Jews promoting hatred of Muslims.  The warmth I have for Jews in my own experence is because there are far more notable and anonymous Jews who have been champions of human rights that I've known or known of in my lifetime than those who are extremists.   I could honestly say that they are among the majority of Jews on earth.


Mar 18, 2012 -- 7:17PM, LeahOne wrote:


I find BDBoy's attempts to smear 'many Jewish intellectuals' with the 'inciting Islamophobia' brush repellent.


SOME - not 'many', nor 'most' nor 'leading', perhaps.  I'm still checking through all the details of each of the funds, etc involved to ascertain the accuracy of the allegations.  My perception is the article he linked to was some left-wing extremists screaming bloody murder abotu soem right-wing extremists, people I generally don't even think about (both sets!)


I'm much more concerned with the 'mainstream' than American Taliban and salafists - which is where I'd place Geller et al.  I don't find Geller much more credible than Paul Findley and never read any of that slime if I can avoid it. 





Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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