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Switch to Forum Live View Why Was He Even in Afghanistan?
2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 7:10PM #41
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

The government is going to end with a gigantic black eye over this incident. The majority of friends I talk to are all sympathetic toward sergeant Bayles; these are career military and intelligence people.


Are we going to continue to let these government assholes who never served a day in the military  reassign our combat veterans to multiple deployments and have the idiocy to diagnose an individal with brain trauma as fit for duty? Just how much combat stress can an individual take.


Maybe we should have some general slap Bayles in the face for malingering.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 7:33PM #42
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

If Bayles gets the death penalty it will be a travesty of justice. This man was returned to a situation which was bound to produce intolerable stress on one who had already been wounded and had suffered head trauma.


If I may digress, a related incident that took place in the UK comes to mind. Shortly after the Second World War, a friend of my father's was coming out of a pub one night and he was jumped by three or four yahoos. My father's friend had served with the Commandos in the British army, and his immediate reaction was to grab one of his assailants around the neck and break said neck. The yahoo died on the spot and my father's friend ended up on trial for murder. This was back in the days when the UK still had the death penalty, so he could have been hanged. The counsel for the defendant argued that the accused had been trained to kill when attacked, and that he had acted instinctively when he broke the yahoo's neck. The defence counsel also argued that if his client was found guilty of murder, then the War Department should also be found guilty of murder since they had trained him - and countless others - to kill without thinking. The jury returned a verdict of 'Not Guilty'.

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 7:40PM #43
rabello
Posts: 20,760

Mar 19, 2012 -- 5:36PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


And I explained that IF he is medically retired because of a traumatic Brain Injury that caused his to commit a violent act, there will be bars on the facility, such as the one I visited in Worchester, Massachusetts...




Yes, you did, but not till after accusing me of wanting to deny this man a trial just because he's a soldier, when I indicated no such thing on any portion of this thread, and threw an insult my way. 

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 7:41PM #44
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

Mar 19, 2012 -- 7:33PM, Mostyn32 wrote:


If Bayles gets the death penalty it will be a travesty of justice. This man was returned to a situation which was bound to produce intolerable stress on one who had already been wounded and had suffered head trauma.




If.


Again, we haven't had the hearing yet much less the GCM (which is probably MONTHS away).


This was a rather serious crime.  Sixteen people machine gunned to death in their sleep.  I'm sure the Government will seek the death penalty.  Whether that is what the final sentence is going to be is another matter and one we are a very long way from at this juncture in time. 


Again, I suspect the man was deranged when he did it.  Most certainly the Defense will get to present its case IF they go with an insanity defnse (which I do believe will be pretty much their only option).  I'm sure the TBI and the PTSD will figure in the defense.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 7:47PM #45
rabello
Posts: 20,760

Mar 19, 2012 -- 7:33PM, Mostyn32 wrote:


If Bayles gets the death penalty it will be a travesty of justice.




I am against the death penalty and think that it is a travesty of justice.   That said, I don't agree that if he gets the death penalty (he won't) it would be a travesty of justice, not for the purposeful thing he did.  It's not like he fought back against yahoos who jumped him coming out of a public establishment.  He broke into homes and executed people after taking them uawares while they slept, and then burned their bodies.  It is unforgiveable.


But -- the guys who raped and killed that Iraqi girl that at least one of them had the "hots" for, her sister and her parents, and burned the bodies didn't get death and neither will Bales.  

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 7:50PM #46
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

Yup.  Most of those guys just got 20 to life.


Death would have been appropriate...

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 8:01PM #47
rabello
Posts: 20,760

Mar 19, 2012 -- 7:50PM, Mlyons619 wrote:


Yup.  Those guys just got 20 to life...




For what they did, they're d*mned lucky they didn't get the death penalty and should have received life without parole like most everybody else who gets convicted for such heinous crimes.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 8:04PM #48
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,570

The conviction and sentencing appaRENTLY was serious enough for those guys, although I do agree that, at least for the primary instigator, a death sentence would have been just..


However, THE CRIME Bales is being accused of is different, and will be tried on its own merits.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 9:49PM #49
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,147

 


I had a conversation today with a young man who is a disabled Afghan war Veteran.  This war is taking a toll on soldiers and the Army(military)  in General.  Wars that drag long and bloody without a clear strategic goal, one the people understand, divide   damage the nation and healing takes years.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 9:54PM #50
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Mar 19, 2012 -- 7:47PM, rabello wrote:


Mar 19, 2012 -- 7:33PM, Mostyn32 wrote:


If Bayles gets the death penalty it will be a travesty of justice.




I am against the death penalty and think that it is a travesty of justice.   That said, I don't agree that if he gets the death penalty (he won't) it would be a travesty of justice, not for the purposeful thing he did.  It's not like he fought back against yahoos who jumped him coming out of a public establishment.  He broke into homes and executed people after taking them uawares while they slept, and then burned their bodies.  It is unforgiveable.


But -- the guys who raped and killed that Iraqi girl that at least one of them had the "hots" for, her sister and her parents, and burned the bodies didn't get death and neither will Bales.  





Rabello,


What do you think the Afghans would have given him for killing 16 of their civilians?

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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