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Switch to Forum Live View Global Warming, Are you a Believer
3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 1:44PM #1
ted08721
Posts: 3,775
The fourth warmest meteorological winter on record is being followed up by a mild March. Highs this week will be as much as 20 to 35 degrees above average at times in the Midwest and Northeast. This kind of warmth sends temperatures into record territory!
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 1:54PM #2
teilhard
Posts: 51,817

Recent Season-Temperature Events in specific local Areas aren't "Climate," but "Weather" ...


But, yes ... All Indications are that Global Climate HAS been gradually warming on average for the last 15,000 Years ... And now Human Cultural-Industrial Activities are ACCELERATING the Trend ...

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 2:19PM #3
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

I'm certainly a believer in climate change, and after one of the mildest winters on record across the Canadian prairies, prepare yourselves for an increase in the price of flour and anything that has flour as an ingredient because Canada's bread basket didn't get enough snow to aid germination of the wheat seed that will be planted this spring. Furthermore, ask any Inuit what is happening in the Arctic and they'll tell you that climate change is wreaking havoc on human and animal life in the far north.

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 4:06PM #4
Jasr
Posts: 12,060

There is nothing to "believe" or "disbelieve."


Science has assembled a massive amount of data about climate, both historic and prehistoric. Do most scientific explanations of the correlation between climate and human industrial activity indicate that we are on an extremely risky path? Yes. Ditto for the relationship between human industrial activity and ocean acidity.


It's not about "believing," any more than the germ theory is about "believing."

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 4:07PM #5
Erey
Posts: 19,149

I do believe that climate changes, has always changed.  It used to be called "global warming" until that did not work.  Europe has something to say about global warming since they just had a beast of a winter. 



We also have had a mild winter, but not the mildest.  Just the winter is rather mild this year.  Our winter was a tad harsh last year.  Climate changes.  Last year we had a drought, a nasty drought.  This year is off to a wet start.  Climate changes. 



I don't believe C02 is the cause, Co2 is the product of warmer weather, not the cause of it. 


I am more concerned about heavy particulates that get in the atmosphere and assorted pollutants

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 5:16PM #6
Jasr
Posts: 12,060

Again, Erey, it is not a question of "believing." The science is out there to be found...it is either rigorous and objective, or it is not.


I tend to think that academic science is more likely to be rigorous and objective than anything that is funded by oil, gas, and coal interests.


And the winter in Europe is irrelevant. It is weather, not climate.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 5:43PM #7
Bodean
Posts: 9,700

- It is scientifically proven that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.


- It is also scientifically proven that a doubling of CO2 would raise global temps by 1C if all other things were held static.


- There is a raging debate regarding feedbacks.  Alarmists groups hold that positive feedbacks will rule the day, resulting in a 1.7-3.5C warming [most evidence for this is model data based on fit to past temps].  Skeptic groups hold that negative feedbacks will rule the day, and that the warming will be on the order of 0.5-1.5C [most evidence for this is recent peer reviewed studies looking into cloud effects].  The science on the feedback aspect of climate has not been established.


- The IPCC holds that the sun has no real effect, and that solar forcing is limited to Total Solar Irradiance.


- The Solar guys hold that irradiance is not the whole story on the sun, and that magnetics plays a much bigger role.  Many recent, peer reviewed studies have come out in support of this.


The global temperature anomoly is currently "below ZERO" .. meaning that the global temp is below the 30 year mean, according to both Satelite Records, one being Warmists, the other being Skeptic.


To DATE ... the global temperature has NOT followed the modelled path of the IPCC since it's first prediction in 1990 put out by Hansen.


As such, we all know the Globe has warmed .... the cause of that warming at this point is purely a subjective matter.  If you are a leftists, odds are you "believe" in AGW ... if you are a Conservative, odds are ... you are unsure.


I think most importantly, the Warmists have been caught now three times being completely unethical .. Climategate I, Climategate II, and now the Glieck "fakegate" were he tried to frame the Heartland Institute.  The Skeptics, thus far, have no legal claims against them.

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 6:16PM #8
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

Yea, though I walk through the alleys of Bakersfield,


I shall fear no weevil,


For paraquat and maneb are with me...


You guys should visit B-field some time, where you can see, smell, taste, and chew the air.

Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 7:00PM #9
Bodean
Posts: 9,700

Mar 12, 2012 -- 5:16PM, Jasr wrote:


Again, Erey, it is not a question of "believing." The science is out there to be found...it is either rigorous and objective, or it is not.


I tend to think that academic science is more likely to be rigorous and objective than anything that is funded by oil, gas, and coal interests.


And the winter in Europe is irrelevant. It is weather, not climate.





Likewise .. the winter here in the States and Canada are irrelevant.  It is weather, not climate.


Funny how you didn't fire that off to Ted who started this thread.


Bias??


Hate to break it to ya, but real science, not funded by the oil companies, is catching up to the AGW story.  The temperature has trended nowhere near even the lowest estimate of the IPCC guys.  The "solar story" is picking up a lot of credibility, not based on irradiance, but based on magnetics and solar wind.  The global anomoly is below zero right now, and all indications are it isn't anywhere near where it is headed ... downward.  This last La Nina was not as strong as the previous, yet global temps reached lower.  Hmmmmm.


I find it funny that you choose to hate on the oil companies, while you embrace the IPCC guys who've been caught red handed altering data, and colluding to fool the public, and guys such as Glieck, who literally forged a document to frame the Heartland Institute.


You want to talk about money??? ... let's talk about the 5 Billion spent on trying to convince the world that AGW is correct, and that we need to kill the fossil fuel industry.  Meanwhile, Heartland's entire budget .. not just it's climate stuff, but the entire budget, is 4 million.


Again ... bias??

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 12, 2012 - 8:01PM #10
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

Regading the topic question..."Global Warming, Are you a Believer"...I certainly am. The earth warms and cools over thousands of years...always has, and alays will. After all, there will be another ice age. The question should be are we humans causing climate change. To that i say, nope...we're not that important.


Ken


Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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