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Switch to Forum Live View Jews and Muslims Outraged at French PM's Plan to End Religious Slaughter in France
2 years ago  ::  Mar 09, 2012 - 2:52PM #31
farragut
Posts: 3,937

" They just fly the old country's flags and eat some of the old traditional foods"


 


Three cheers for the lingon and the lutefisk. Rokar stokar.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2012 - 11:55AM #32
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Mar 7, 2012 -- 6:29PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

First it was Norway, and then Netherlands and now France.  Anyone see the pattern? the problem?

The fight against religous liberty is continuing in the EU. You would think that they would have more immediate concerns. 

Jews and Muslims outraged at French PM's plan to end religious slaughter in France

Jewish and Muslim leaders in France have reacted angrily at suggestions by Prime Minister François Fillon that certain religions should rethink their "ancestral traditions" of religious slaughter of animals, suggesting they were “outdated” and not in line with “Republican tradition”. The comment came as President Nicolas Sarkozy - seeking re-election in the April-May ballot - and his ministers kept up efforts to woo far-right voters from the anti-immigrant National Front led by Marine Le Pen.

Richard Prasquier, head of the Jewish umbrella organization CRIF, said that he was "shocked" by Fillon's "astonishing" declaration, and added: "The government has no place giving advice about religious traditions." French Chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim asked: “France's problems are so major, as we are in a period of crisis, so how can the issue of kosher meat and halal meat be a major problem for France?”

. . .

The French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) slammed what it said was the use of Muslims as "scapegoats" in the election campaign in which halal slaughter of animals has become a hot-button issue.

. . .

full article:
www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/1143...[/quote]


 




 


Squirrel,


This is one reason that I support the State of Israel. The Gentiles cannot be trusted to govern Jews without persecuting them. Keep your passport updated and invest in Israeli businesses.


To the Muslim posters: Keep your passports updated and invest in businesses in Muslim countries.


 


Edit: fix quote function

Moderated by Stardove on Mar 12, 2012 - 05:12PM
For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2012 - 2:26PM #33
BDboy
Posts: 5,138

Mar 11, 2012 -- 11:55AM, Roodog wrote:


Mar 7, 2012 -- 6:29PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:

First it was Norway, and then Netherlands and now France.  Anyone see the pattern? the problem?

The fight against religous liberty is continuing in the EU. You would think that they would have more immediate concerns. 

Jews and Muslims outraged at French PM's plan to end religious slaughter in France

Jewish and Muslim leaders in France have reacted angrily at suggestions by Prime Minister François Fillon that certain religions should rethink their "ancestral traditions" of religious slaughter of animals, suggesting they were “outdated” and not in line with “Republican tradition”. The comment came as President Nicolas Sarkozy - seeking re-election in the April-May ballot - and his ministers kept up efforts to woo far-right voters from the anti-immigrant National Front led by Marine Le Pen.

Richard Prasquier, head of the Jewish umbrella organization CRIF, said that he was "shocked" by Fillon's "astonishing" declaration, and added: "The government has no place giving advice about religious traditions." French Chief Rabbi Gilles Bernheim asked: “France's problems are so major, as we are in a period of crisis, so how can the issue of kosher meat and halal meat be a major problem for France?”

. . .

The French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM) slammed what it said was the use of Muslims as "scapegoats" in the election campaign in which halal slaughter of animals has become a hot-button issue.

. . .

full article:
www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/1143...[/quote]


 




 


Squirrel,


This is one reason that I support the State of Israel. The Gentiles cannot be trusted to govern Jews without persecuting them. Keep your passport updated and invest in Israeli businesses.


To the Muslim posters: Keep your passports updated and invest in businesses in Muslim countries.


 




 


>>>>>>>> Thank you for your good advice.


I do understand where you are coming from. However if you look at Jewish and Muslim relationship for last 60+ years, you may not get the bog picture.


Muslims and Jews had pretty good relationship in most parts of 1400 years. Even after second world war tons of Jews were given shelter in Muslims lands. Hunders of thousands Muslims fought against the Nazis as well.


This "Good relationship" tunred sour a bit when the zionist movement started (With some land disputes) and eventual re-creation of Biblical Israel (Which did not exist for around 2000 years).


 


Unlike Christianity (For most parts of last 2000 years) Islam does not have any religious mandate to go against Jews for simply being Jewish.  Muslims do not blame Jews for killing Jesus son of Mary either.


 


Despite the headliners from Arabia, Jews and Muslims get along fine in most places. They do not make news but they do. It may be hard to imagine that, there are Jewish communities in places like Iran today.


While it will be wrong to deny problems between these communities but it is NOT as bad as most people think it is. The very topic of the thread shown us there are many "Common grounds" for these two communities and they often stand united to solve them.

Moderated by Stardove on Mar 12, 2012 - 05:13PM
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 11, 2012 - 2:57PM #34
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,226

BDboy


Enough with your revisionist history. There were times and places when Muslims did not abuse Jews and Christians. Those were few and far between. As you know, Jews and Christians were "permitted" to live in lands controlled by Muslims as Dhimmis. Dhimmitude is the original apartheid system and all but insured that neither Jews nor Christians could thrive (it usually meant far worse), despite the fact that they were in almost all circumstances the earlier population of the areas controlled by Muslims.  


I have tried to discuss the Muslim religious apartheid system known as Dhimmitude with you on a number of occasions. Your denial of historical fact speaks loud and clear. 


Roo


I always keep my passport up to date. You never know when the chance for adventurous foreign travel might come up (not to mention that it is a good insurance policy against bad things which may or may not happen). Everyone should have an up to date passport. After all these days you need one just to have lunch in Canada.   


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2 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 8:05AM #35
BDboy
Posts: 5,138

Mar 11, 2012 -- 2:57PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


Enough with your revisionist history. There were times and places when Muslims did not abuse Jews and Christians. Those were few and far between. As you know, Jews and Christians were "permitted" to live in lands controlled by Muslims as Dhimmis. Dhimmitude is the original apartheid system and all but insured that neither Jews nor Christians could thrive (it usually meant far worse), despite the fact that they were in almost all circumstances the earlier population of the areas controlled by Muslims.  


I have tried to discuss the Muslim religious apartheid system known as Dhimmitude with you on a number of occasions. Your denial of historical fact speaks loud and clear. 


Roo


I always keep my passport up to date. You never know when the chance for adventurous foreign travel might come up (not to mention that it is a good insurance policy against bad things which may or may not happen). Everyone should have an up to date passport. After all these days you need one just to have lunch in Canada.   





 


>>>>>>>>> I don't think I denied anything. Simply said relationship was much better than how it is now.


Maybe you misunderstood my posts!


Without getting more into the discussion we had already, the way some of your posts written make it sound like the term "Dhimmi" as something very bad. Literally it means "Protected". Even in 21st century security is the first priority for everyone. Even the state of Israel established that as their prime concern.


There were time when Jews were protected from attacks and abuse by Jew haters. Don't think the idea of giving protection is a bad thing.


Here is a short intro to the term...


 


Dhimmi


Historically, a dhimmi was a person who is protected under Islamic law by a pact contracted between non-Muslims and authorities from their Muslim government: this status was first made available to non-Muslims who were People of the Book (i.e. Jews and Christians), but was later extended to include Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Mandeans, Hindus[13] andBuddhists.[14][15] People of the Book living in non-Islamic nations were not considered dhimmis.


Non-Muslim People of the Book living in an Islamic nation under Sharia law were given a number of rights, such as the right to freely practice their faith in private and to receive state protection. In turn, they had a legal responsibility, the payment of a special tax called jizya ("tribute") in place of zakat. The social structure of the Ottoman Empire would serve as an example of how non-Muslims were treated.




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2 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 10:25AM #36
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,226

BDboy


Americans are familiar with the problems of "Jim Crow" in the Southern States, the Dhimi laws were even worse. The practice of Dhimmitude in the Arab/Muslim world was even worse than was worse than the  Jim Crow south. Your denial of the horrors of the Dhimmi system as practiced by Arab Muslims for 1400 years is nothing short of amazing.  



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2 years ago  ::  Mar 13, 2012 - 12:11PM #37
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Mar 13, 2012 -- 10:25AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


Americans are familiar with the problems of "Jim Crow" in the Southern States, the Dhimi laws were even worse. The practice of Dhimmitude in the Arab/Muslim world was even worse than was worse than the  Jim Crow south. Your denial of the horrors of the Dhimmi system as practiced by Arab Muslims for 1400 years is nothing short of amazing.  






Rocky, I think the issue here is whether the French  is imposing Jim Crow Dhimmitude on Jews and Muslims.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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2 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 3:54PM #38
BDboy
Posts: 5,138

Mar 13, 2012 -- 10:25AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


BDboy


Americans are familiar with the problems of "Jim Crow" in the Southern States, the Dhimi laws were even worse. The practice of Dhimmitude in the Arab/Muslim world was even worse than was worse than the  Jim Crow south. Your denial of the horrors of the Dhimmi system as practiced by Arab Muslims for 1400 years is nothing short of amazing.  




 


>>>>>>>> Well if you like to understand Islam by looking into the late Libyan leader Ghaddafi (Who was very anti_Islamic), you may get the wrong picture. Let me share a little to help you....


 


 
Understanding the Prophet's Life
Neighbours

Neighbours have rights, be they Muslims or non-Muslims. The Prophet of Allah said: "He is not a true Believer who eats his fill while his neighbour is hungry". (Bayhaqi.)

Thus, the quality of our Din and fate in the Akhira will also be determined by how well we fulfill our obligations towards our neighbours. In a hadith narrated by Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, a man said:


"O Messenger of Allah, such and such woman has a reputation for engaging very much in Prayers, Fasting and Almsgiving, but she hurts her neighbours with her tongue quite often." He said, "She will go to Hell." Then he said, "O Messenger of Allah, such and such woman engages in only a little Prayer, Fasting and Almsgiving and gives just a few pieces of cheese in charity, but she does not hurt her neighbours with her tongue". He said,"She will go to Paradise." (Ahmad, Bayhaqi.)


One class of neighbours is our relatives. Another class are those who are not our relatives and the third class of neighbours are those who sit with us, even for a few minutes. This third class of neighbours is a very wide group and includes those who sit by our side. If we are travelling in a taxi, bus, train or aeroplane the person who is sitting by our side is our neighbour. If we are in the office, our co-worker is our neighbour. If we are at school, our classmate is our neighbour.

Among the rights of your neighbour is that his life, property and honour must be protected. Violation of any of them is haram or unlawful. His life is inviolable. Remember that the life of a non-Muslim is as important as that of a Muslim. The Prophet Muhammad said that "One who kills a non-Muslim whose protection is pledged will never smell the fragrance of Janna, even though it reaches as far as 40 years distance". (Bukhari, Muslim.)

 

 

So the life of the non-Muslim is also inviolable, as is his property and his honour. All must be respected and safeguarded. This is especially important for us to consider because we live in a multi-cultural and multi-religious society and, unfortunately, there are many misconceptions prevailing among Muslims about the extent of their obligations towards non-Muslims.

 

The Prophet himself used to pay special attention to the needs of non-Muslims even when there was poverty, hardship and difficulties in the Muslim community.

 

 

Compiled From:
"In The Early Hours" - Khurram Murad, pp.125,126



================================================================


For more info, pick this book up.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 9:05AM #39
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,152

BDboy, that is very positive description of Isamic teaching.


So where do we get bad bits from like killing the infidels; it might have been taken out of context, but also there would be circumstances when killing an enemy is permitted.


Christians are good at it 'just war doctrine' I think they call it.



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2 years ago  ::  Mar 19, 2012 - 10:37AM #40
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

news.yahoo.com/gunman-kills-4-outside-je...


 


Perhaps Sarkozy needs to crack down on the slaughter of Jews and Muslims in France.


This article, while discussing the murder of Jews, cites the murder of three soldiers of Arab extraction.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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