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Switch to Forum Live View American Troops' Ability to Learn?
3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 2:14PM #1
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

I am puzzled.


How come that after 10 years in Afghanistan, US personnell in Baghram still have not realised how important the Quran is for the local population?


How come they have so little clue of what is going on that not only do they burn copies of the Quran that they don't need any more, they also carelessly and incompletely burn them, and throw the half-burnt remnants on the streets...


Please, Americans, help me out here!


Help me understand how this could happen.

tl;dr
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 2:59PM #2
Ed.W
Posts: 9,442

I cannot answer this question.  I suppose they burn most of the garbage at foreign US Bases.


I don't know what else they'd do with a book they wish to discard.  I guess they could dig a hole and bury it, but that seems like a lot of trouble.


‘Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage.’ --Lao Tzu
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 3:23PM #3
Erey
Posts: 18,940

The rules on unwated Quran treatment seem a bit made up as they go along anyway.  Like in dealing with OBL's corpse - big efforts were made toward an "Islamicaly correct" funeral.  But no, still people got pissed off.  According to them those were the wrong Islamic rules.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 3:41PM #4
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,393

Here is an article about it, www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0222....


I will say that there is an investigation going on as to what happened and who gave the order to burn the Qurans which is a good thing. It's atrocious that our men and women would do so knowing what it means and those that are responsible should be reprimanded.


That said, it in no way excuses violence, vandalism, and protesters firing shots at folks.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 3:53PM #5
CharikIeia
Posts: 8,301

Feb 22, 2012 -- 3:41PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Here is an article about it, www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0222....



Thanks for this, GC! It is mind-boggling how low aspiration levels can be set...


The US military is now investigating whether American military officials ordered Qurans to be destroyed because prisoners at a US detention facility were passing extremist messages in them, an International Security Assistance Force spokesman said Wednesday.


“We haven’t got any proof of that yet, and that is a vital part of the investigation that is ongoing,” Brig. Gen. Carsten Jacobson said in a Pentagon briefing Wednesday.


No proof, and they invent this nonsense now, after their idiotic burning activity has been exposed. My my my! Who selects these morons to serve for the USA? Who teaches them to weasle this way?



I will say that there is an investigation going on as to what happened and who gave the order to burn the Qurans which is a good thing. It's atrocious that our men and women would do so knowing what it means and those that are responsible should be reprimanded.



Yes, indeed. How is it possible, after soooo may years and soooo many precedence?



That said, it in no way excuses violence, vandalism, and protesters firing shots at folks.



Yes, sure. But if American's cant learn, why should Afghans be expected to?


Feb 22, 2012 -- 3:23PM, Erey wrote:


... in dealing with OBL's corpse - big efforts were made toward an "Islamicaly correct" funeral.  But no, still people got pissed off.  According to them those were the wrong Islamic rules.



Actually, all I know is criticism of the secrecy, not the claimed ritual.


Nobody in the larger public has seen any evidence of ObL being killed or funeralised.


It's hearsay that you can choose to believe because you trust Obama & Co., or not.


In a way, the ObL secrecy is very similar to Dubya's decree banning US troops' coffin pictures.

tl;dr
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 4:20PM #6
Ironhold
Posts: 11,549

My guess is that someone said "take all the trash to the burn pit" without realizing that there were discarded Korans in there, and the soldiers assigned to trash detail complied without inspecting it, either.


You'd be surprised how often stupid mistakes take place because of people not paying attention.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 6:07PM #7
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

Chari


First off, we are not talking about ALL US Military.  We're talking about prison guards, made up of MP's, who, while physically tough, do not have it all up there intellectually-wise (otherwise they'd be military cops instead of guards).  They were told to burn trash and, in all likelihood, were unaware that the Korans were in the trash (these Korans were trashed BTW because they were being used to write inflammatory messages inside them).


So no, Chari, most American troops are knowledgeable of this, tho clearly some are not -- as I would wager that most but not all German troops in Afghanistan are knowledgeable about people there feel about Korans.


Or are you, like the mob that formed, mindlessly blaming ALL Americans for this?


This seems to have set off an incendiary mob.  Seems rather easy to start a riot and get people killed, all some manipulatively-minded jerk has to do is burn a Koran.


BTW, while it was not all that bright for these American MP guards to burn Korans, it is the fault of the MOB and not the US for all the damage and the deaths.  Because if you are going to blame the Americans for this, then you need to blame the newspapers and the cartoonists in Europe for starting all that Islamic violence over cartoons of Mohammed a few years back...


 

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 6:32PM #8
arielg
Posts: 9,116

Feb 22, 2012 -- 2:14PM, CharikIeia wrote:


I am puzzled.


How come that after 10 years in Afghanistan, US personnell in Baghram still have not realised how important the Quran is for the local population?


Because they don't care. They went to  Afghanistan to shoot people, not to learn the culture or be sensitive to people's beliefs and needs. That is not what the military do.


How come they have so little clue of what is going on that not only do they burn copies of the Quran that they don't need any more, they also carelessly and incompletely burn them, and throw the half-burnt remnants on the streets...


Because they don't care. They went to  Afghanistan to shoot people, not to learn the culture or be sensitive to people's beliefs and needs. That is not what the military do.


Please, Americans, help me out here!


Help me understand how this could happen.




The reactions we see  show how much the occupiers are hated. This is just the excuse to express it.



 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 7:11PM #9
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

Over 100 years ago, Rudyard Kipling, who served with the British Army in India and Afghanistan, wrote: "East is east, and west is west, and never the twain shall meet."  Nothing's changed in the more than 100 years since he wrote that line, and as far as I'm concerned it's more than high time that NATO pulled all troops out of Afghanistan. No one since Alexander the Great has been able to win any wars, skirmishes, battles or whatever you want to call them in that country, and the western death toll has been too high a price to pay for few, if any, positive results. Since the ostensible reason for going into Afghanistan was to track down Osama bin Laden and round up Al Qaeda, and that was accomplished in May, 2011, it's time the troops came home.  

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2012 - 8:49PM #10
Bodean
Posts: 9,593

As I see it ... the "books" ... ie., paper with ink on them .. belonged to the US Army.  It was their property to do with what they wished.


If they wanted to put it in the stalls and use it as toilet paper, it would have been their right to do so.


What this all boils down to is that Muslims are always looking for a reason to act unreasonable.  It's like that Cartoonists in Denmark, who I think got killed, or at least had a price on his head, for drawing a cartoon depicting Allah in an unfavorable way.


So ... Do you sympathize with these lunatics who wanted to kill a cartoonists for drawing a cartoon?  Was that OK??  Did the Cartoonists violate their rights .. or did he exercise his right of opinion??

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