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Switch to Forum Live View American Troops' Ability to Learn?
3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 12:33AM #171
teilhard
Posts: 51,418

Excuse me ... ???


Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:31AM, rabello wrote:


Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:21AM, teilhard wrote:


But THAT is an entirely DIFFERENT Question than our Internationally Recognized Right of Self Defense ...




Are you sure you're not posting on the wrong board?


Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:21AM, teilhard wrote:


I guess in YOUR View of these Matters, a more appropriate Response to those Crimes would have been to just wait passively patiently to see if we could catch them In-The-Act NEXT Time ... ??? ...




I won't respond to your sarcastic and disrespectful mischaracterization of what other people say.  If that's the only way you have to defend your viewpoints, then big deal what you think.





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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 12:41AM #172
rabello
Posts: 21,694

Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:27AM, teilhard wrote:


But ... You think The People of Afghanistan would be BETTER off today if The Taliban had NOT been removed from (some of their) Power post 9-11 ... ??? 




Please be respectful enough to address the points that other people make.  I wonder if you even knew of the efforts womens' rights movements from across the world made on  behalf of the "People of Afghanistan" after the Taliban took control by force.   Men, of course, wouldn't pay attention.


But, you are the one who wants to cut and run before the Taliban is even defeated and return the women and children back to their oppressed lives.  I have always advocated a more humane approach to civilians but I admit I am not a hawk and will never be a hawk,

Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Feb 28, 2012 - 03:30PM
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 12:53AM #173
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,572

FYI rab - the goal was NEVER to defeat the Taliban, but rather to eliminate the AQ threat, which BTW HAS been eliminated.  We have no business staying in Afghanistan and propping up the corrupt Karzai Regime, which, BTW, is the only reason the Taliban are fighting us...

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 1:49AM #174
rabello
Posts: 21,694

Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:53AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


FYI rab - the goal was NEVER to defeat the Taliban, but rather to eliminate the AQ threat, which BTW HAS been eliminated.  We have no business staying in Afghanistan and propping up the corrupt Karzai Regime, which, BTW, is the only reason the Taliban are fighting us...




I know that.


My post was in answer to teilhard's claim that the "People of Afghanistan" brought their oppression upon themselves and his cynical and presumptuous question to be, claiming that I would think the "People of Afghanistan" were "better off" under the Taliban.


That claim after numerous posts, by me, sticking up FOR the "People of Afghanistan" and pointing out how severely oppressed they became after the Taliban "won" the civil war that ensued after the Soviets' invasion. 


I've never claimed that Bush sent troops into Afghanistan and that Obama is keeping troops in Afghanistan to overthrow the Taliban in order to "free" the "People of Afghanistan". I wouldn't be pointing out that they are collaterally damaged human shields if that's what I thought.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 9:47AM #175
teilhard
Posts: 51,418

The Taliban are Afghan People who have every democratic Right to take Part in Afghan Society and Political Life, yes ... ???


But they DON'T have the Right to harbor Al Qaida ...


Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:41AM, rabello wrote:


Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:27AM, teilhard wrote:


But ... You think The People of Afghanistan would be BETTER off today if The Taliban had NOT been removed from (some of their) Power post 9-11 ... ??? 




As I just wrote, I won't respond to your sarcastic and disrespectful mischaracterization of what other people say.  If you won't be respectful enough to address the points that other people make instead of mocking them with misrepresentation, then there are not worthy of comment.  I wonder if you even knew of the efforts womens' rights movements from across the world made on  behalf of the "People of Afghanistan" after the Taliban took control by force.   Men, of course, wouldn't pay attention.


But, you are the one who wants to cut and run before the Taliban is even defeated and return the women and children back to their oppressed lives.  I have always advocated a more humane approach to civilians but I admit I am not a hawk and will never be a hawk,





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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 4:44PM #176
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941

Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:30AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


ASo are we saying we should've left Nazi Germany alone, based on that sort of reasoning?


Wrong.


Again, the Government of Afghanistan, whicih, as far as the World was concerned, represented the PEOPLE of Afghanistan, acted in the interests of a terrorist outfit instead of the people, and provided said terrorist outfit a safe haven to hide after committing its outrage. 




Gee whiz, the US managed to leave Nazi Germany alone for three years, while European and the British Commonwealth forces fought that good fight!

"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 5:00PM #177
teilhard
Posts: 51,418

Yes ... The USA didn't directly enter WWII until WE were directly attacked ...


We're NOT a Bunch of bloodthirsty Warmongers (well, except in the Case of Grenada, but even then, The World Supply of Nutmeg was in Danger of falling into  Communist Hands) ...


Feb 28, 2012 -- 4:44PM, Mostyn32 wrote:


Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:30AM, Mlyons619 wrote:


ASo are we saying we should've left Nazi Germany alone, based on that sort of reasoning?


Wrong.


Again, the Government of Afghanistan, whicih, as far as the World was concerned, represented the PEOPLE of Afghanistan, acted in the interests of a terrorist outfit instead of the people, and provided said terrorist outfit a safe haven to hide after committing its outrage. 




Gee whiz, the US managed to leave Nazi Germany alone for three years, while European and the British Commonwealth forces fought that good fight!





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3 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2012 - 3:54PM #178
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

Feb 28, 2012 -- 9:47AM, teilhard wrote:


The Taliban are Afghan People who have every democratic Right to take Part in Afghan Society and Political Life, yes ... ???


But they DON'T have the Right to harbor Al Qaida ...




Feb 28, 2012 -- 9:47AM, teilhard wrote:


The Taliban are Afghan People who have every democratic Right to take Part in Afghan Society and Political Life, yes ... ???


But they DON'T have the Right to harbor Al Qaida ...




/ ]


jd23 says


Anymore that the right-wing papist fundamentalists (aka Santorum) have a right to be harbored in the US.


Seems that the US does and has harbored numerous war criminals: does that mean that the US should be attacked by whomever?  You see, this silliness that you kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians because someone you disliked happened to hang his/her hat in another country is ridiculous.  The truth is that Saudis hijacked the 9/11 planes and that they were financed and harbored by Saudi royalty residing in the US who flew out on 9/12 courtesy of the Bush admin.


If US troops could think they'd remember how they were used in a useless war in Vietnam and tell everyone they knew to avoid being so used in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Central Am., etc. (other nations which have also not attacked the US, but which international corporations wish to steal resources from).

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2012 - 4:07PM #179
teilhard
Posts: 51,418

Western-NATO Nations attacked Afghanistan after 9-11-2001 because The Afghanistan Government (such as it was) was deliberately fostering and sheltering an International Terror Organization that had attacked The United States, resulting in the Deaths of nearly 3,000 of our Citizens ...


The Idea that OUR Response OUGHT to have been just a *Shrug*and*a*Wink* strikes me as markedly irresponsible ...


Feb 29, 2012 -- 3:54PM, johndavid23 wrote:


Feb 28, 2012 -- 9:47AM, teilhard wrote:


The Taliban are Afghan People who have every democratic Right to take Part in Afghan Society and Political Life, yes ... ???


But they DON'T have the Right to harbor Al Qaida ...




Feb 28, 2012 -- 9:47AM, teilhard wrote:


The Taliban are Afghan People who have every democratic Right to take Part in Afghan Society and Political Life, yes ... ???


But they DON'T have the Right to harbor Al Qaida ...




/ ]


jd23 says


Anymore that the right-wing papist fundamentalists (aka Santorum) have a right to be harbored in the US.


Seems that the US does and has harbored numerous war criminals: does that mean that the US should be attacked by whomever?  You see, this silliness that you kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians because someone you disliked happened to hang his/her hat in another country is ridiculous.  The truth is that Saudis hijacked the 9/11 planes and that they were financed and harbored by Saudi royalty residing in the US who flew out on 9/12 courtesy of the Bush admin.


If US troops could think they'd remember how they were used in a useless war in Vietnam and tell everyone they knew to avoid being so used in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Central Am., etc. (other nations which have also not attacked the US, but which international corporations wish to steal resources from).





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 1:58PM #180
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

Feb 29, 2012 -- 4:07PM, teilhard wrote:


Western-NATO Nations attacked Afghanistan after 9-11-2001 because The Afghanistan Government (such as it was) was deliberately fostering and sheltering an International Terror Organization that had attacked The United States, resulting in the Deaths of nearly 3,000 of our Citizens ...


The Idea that OUR Response OUGHT to have been just a *Shrug*and*a*Wink* strikes me as markedly irresponsible ...


Feb 29, 2012 -- 3:54PM, johndavid23 wrote:


Feb 28, 2012 -- 9:47AM, teilhard wrote:


The Taliban are Afghan People who have every democratic Right to take Part in Afghan Society and Political Life, yes ... ???


But they DON'T have the Right to harbor Al Qaida ...






jd23 says


Anymore than that the right-wing papist fundamentalists (aka Santorum) have a right to be harbored in the US.


Seems that the US does and has harbored numerous war criminals: does that mean that the US should be attacked by whomever?  You see, this silliness that you kill tens of thousands of innocent civilians because someone you disliked happened to hang his/her hat in another country is ridiculous.  The truth is that Saudis hijacked the 9/11 planes and that they were financed and harbored by Saudi royalty residing in the US who flew out on 9/12 courtesy of the Bush admin.


If US troops could think they'd remember how they were used in a useless war in Vietnam and tell everyone they knew to avoid being so used in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Central Am., etc. (other nations which have also not attacked the US, but which international corporations wish to steal resources from).




There was never any proof that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan.  Most of the Saudis had gathered and plotted in Germany, and no one thought of attacking Germany.  There IS proof that Saudi royalty living in the US had contact with the hijackers and financed their flight training.




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