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Locked: Judea Pearl: Anti-Zionism is Racism
6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:00AM #301
LeahOne
Posts: 18,418

"Jews born outside Israel do not have a long, continuance presence in Israel, the same is true of Gentiles born outside Israel, except for Palestinian refugees and their families who have unlawfully been kept from returning to their homes in violation of international law forthe past 60+ years."


 


Sherri, remember when you instructed me to "leave Christianity to the Christians"?  This is an example of when one needs to leave Judaism to the Jews.


Unless, of course, one feels they have some 'extra' right to decide things for communities they know nothing about and with which they have no connection..... 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:07AM #302
LeahOne
Posts: 18,418

Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:43AM, Miraj wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:38AM, habesor wrote:


Miraj,


Again, I believe in being as precise as possible. You wrote:


"Israel does not allow for interfaith marriages." 


That might be interpreted as saying that such marriages are against the law. Israel does not conduct civil marriages, except in the case of two people who are not of any faith, and that is a very recent development. It recognizes civil marriages or interfaith marriages conducted elsewhere. 


Habesor




That's what I said.




Those are two different things.  And I'm sorry for having been mistaken earlier.  And yes, I think it's a distinction which matters.  Here in the US we've been lied to by the religious reactionaries who are so afraid of 'gay marriage', they've tried to insist making it legal would *force* clergy to perform them.  Which, of course, is a bunch of crap.


I'd prefer to see - in ALL secular nations! - marriage as a civil union ceremony, with religious marriages performed by choice in addition if desired. 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:16AM #303
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Picking out one sentence and ignoring the rest of the paragraph does allow for misunderstandings, but I said nothing in error or that was not understandable.  

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:38AM #304
Shusha
Posts: 6,097

Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:45AM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:31AM, Shusha wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:25AM, Miraj wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:22AM, Shusha wrote:


So, you don't have a problem with immigration, per se, it seems.  Its the "start a nation" that is the problem for you?




I have no problem with immigration to Israel.  In fact, I'd like to see more of it, starting with the right of return for displaced Palestinians or implementation of the one-state solution.





Okay, so you are fine with immigration to Israel, by Jews and non-Jews, and yet when Jews immigrate you complain of colonialism, even though they can not be strictly defined as "foreigners" as they have had a long, continuous presence in Israel. 


So, your problem with Jews imigrating is with the "start a nation" part? 




Shusha,


Jews born outside Israel do not have a long, continuance presence in Israel, the same is true of Gentiles born outside Israel, except for Palestinian refugees and their families who have unlawfully been kept from returning to their homes in violation of international law forthe past 60+ years.


Sherr






Sherri,


By your logic Palestinian "refugees and their families" also do not have a long, continual presence in Israel, since they were not born there. 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 7:17AM #305
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,521

Mar 2, 2012 -- 1:38AM, Shusha wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:45AM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:31AM, Shusha wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:25AM, Miraj wrote:


Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:22AM, Shusha wrote:


So, you don't have a problem with immigration, per se, it seems.  Its the "start a nation" that is the problem for you?




I have no problem with immigration to Israel.  In fact, I'd like to see more of it, starting with the right of return for displaced Palestinians or implementation of the one-state solution.





Okay, so you are fine with immigration to Israel, by Jews and non-Jews, and yet when Jews immigrate you complain of colonialism, even though they can not be strictly defined as "foreigners" as they have had a long, continuous presence in Israel. 


So, your problem with Jews imigrating is with the "start a nation" part? 




Shusha,


Jews born outside Israel do not have a long, continuance presence in Israel, the same is true of Gentiles born outside Israel, except for Palestinian refugees and their families who have unlawfully been kept from returning to their homes in violation of international law forthe past 60+ years.


Sherr






Sherri,


By your logic Palestinian "refugees and their families" also do not have a long, continual presence in Israel, since they were not born there. 





Shusha,


No, I did not say that at all.


Under intl law, the Palestinian refugees legally were entitled to return to their homes in 1947 and 1948 or 1967 (or other date), their rights to return began when they were pressured to leave their homes in Palestine, by force or fear or the conflict or violence or ethnic cleansing. Israel has spent the last 60+ years denying them their lawful rights to return to their homes under intl law. Their children have the same rights they do. They are part of the Palestinian refugee community, the children and grandchildren and all desendants.


They, Palestinian refugees, not Jews, nor Gentiles like you and I, are the only ones with intl legal rights as refugees to return to Israel/Palestine. There actually are some Jewish Palestinian refugees, as well. That Jewish AntiZionist Rabbi whose family originated in Hebron, who lives in Europe now, who made a You Tube video I provided a link to in a prior post, whose family experienced mistreatment and land thefts, too, is also a member of the Palestinian refugee community.


Sherri

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 12:35PM #306
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 19,045

Sherri


Under international law the only "Palestinians" who could claim refugee status are those who are over 65 and who resided as full time permanent residents in Israel prior to the Arab invasion of Israel which caused them to be dislocated. they would also need to prove that their dislocation was occasioned by the war and nothing else. No one else qualifies.  If you are going to pretend to cite International Law - you could at least take the time to learn it. 


Now, can we please stay on topic?


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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 12:50PM #307
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,521

Mar 2, 2012 -- 12:35PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Sherri


Under international law the only "Palestinians" who could claim refugee status are those who are over 65 and who resided as full time permanent residents in Israel prior to the Arab invasion of Israel which caused them to be dislocated. they would also need to prove that their dislocation was occasioned by the war and nothing else. No one else qualifies.  If you are going to pretend to cite International Law - you could at least take the time to learn it. 


Now, can we please stay on topic?



rocket,


There are millions of Palestinian refugees unlawfully prevented from returning to their homes. That is what the intl legal authorities tell me, the United Nations organizations. They are who I look to for an understanding of intl law, the intl legal exprts, not you, or any other individual posters on Beliefnet.


Truth will always be brought into the light and injustice always has an end one day, as well.


I find peace and comfort in that knowledge.


Sherri

Moderated by Beliefnet_community on Mar 02, 2012 - 02:11PM
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:28PM #308
LeahOne
Posts: 18,418

I do not have to tolerate racism or be silent in the face of it.


Truth will always be brought into the light and injustice always has an end one day, as well.


I find peace and comfort in that knowledge. 


Zionism is NOT racism.  But stating as though it were a fact that "the world is a better and a safer place without Ruthi Fogel and her children in it" - that IS 'racism'.  In the sense that there's no closer word for anti-Jewish people-ism in English than that.


 


 

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 7:40PM #309
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,955

...As for your other comment, there are unfortunately people who hate and teach hate to others in our world. That is their life, people like Adolph Hitler and Ruth Fogel, who taught little girls to hate in an extremist religious settlement community, living as an illegal settler on stolen land, inciting children to attack and hate and seek to destroy Palestinians. Neither are heroes...



A mother whose throat was cut in her sleep is being compared to Hitler?


Is THIS supposed to be an example of Christian love?


Moderated by rangerken on Mar 02, 2012 - 11:11PM
"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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6 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2012 - 12:37AM #310
rangerken
Posts: 16,967

So many posts have been removed because hey were competing personal attacks, and misquotes, etc, that this thread is no longer close to its topic, and is therefore now locked.


Rangerken, co-host

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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