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Locked: Judea Pearl: Anti-Zionism is Racism
2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:35AM #11
LeahOne
Posts: 16,128

What's that state going to look like, Miraj?  And do you think anyone else wants it to look like what you do?


It's going to be a really hard sell to the Israelis.... don't you think they will be skeptical?

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:37AM #12
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 21, 2012 -- 11:35AM, LeahOne wrote:


What's that state going to look like, Miraj?  And do you think anyone else wants it to look like what you do?


It's going to be a really hard sell to the Israelis.... don't you think they will be skeptical?




Israel's going to make it happen.  

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:50AM #13
LeahOne
Posts: 16,128

OK, fine - so what nations do you see as a model for this 'single state'?

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:55AM #14
LeahOne
Posts: 16,128

Feb 21, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Miraj wrote:


I'm anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish.  I know lots of Jews who are anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish either.  


Another thing I'm against is attempts to bully and name-call to shut down civil discourse.





Funny, that's how I feel whenever someone insists I'm 'brainwashed' because I don't see Zionism as inherently evil -  but then that's not 'civil discourse', now is it?


IFF you thought, Miraj, that I was calling you 'anti-Jewish', I apologize for being less than precise. I didn't mean to do that.  There's always a first time and I keep hoping.  Unfortunately, your version of being 'anti-Zionist' seems to include the destruction of the State of Israel - and it hasn't been made clear to me that you limit this to some kind of 'referendum' by the citizenry.  So I'm sort of 'undecided' here....but no, I don't think you're a religious bigot. 

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:56AM #15
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Off the top of my head, German reunification.  

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:59AM #16
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 21, 2012 -- 11:55AM, LeahOne wrote:


Feb 21, 2012 -- 11:31AM, Miraj wrote:


I'm anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish.  I know lots of Jews who are anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish either.  


Another thing I'm against is attempts to bully and name-call to shut down civil discourse.





Funny, that's how I feel whenever someone insists I'm 'brainwashed' because I don't see Zionism as inherently evil -  but then that's not 'civil discourse', now is it?


IFF you thought, Miraj, that I was calling you 'anti-Jewish', I apologize for being less than precise. I didn't mean to do that.  There's always a first time and I keep hoping.  Unfortunately, your version of being 'anti-Zionist' seems to include the destruction of the State of Israel - and it hasn't been made clear to me that you limit this to some kind of 'referendum' by the citizenry.  So I'm sort of 'undecided' here....but no, I don't think you're a religious bigot. 




Thank you, Leah.  You're very kind and I appreciate that.  You're certainly not among those I would consider to be attempting to limit discourse, though.  You never do that.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 12:03PM #17
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,319

Miraj


How do you believe that the German reunification example is similar and how is it different from your proposed one state solution?

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 12:30PM #18
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 21, 2012 -- 12:03PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Miraj


How do you believe that the German reunification example is similar and how is it different from your proposed destruction of the state of Israel, excuse me, one state solution?




German reunification didn't destroy Germany; reunification won't destroy Israel.  Since there has not yet been a reunifiation in Palestine, I'll reserve my comments about that until the time there is one.  Insha'allah, that will be soon.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 1:45PM #19
vra
Posts: 6,397

Feb 21, 2012 -- 11:32AM, Miraj wrote:


IS there room in the PA's or HAMAS' Palestine for an Israel next to it?   Is there in Miraj's  - I hope so!


I'm for a one-state solution. I haven't supported the two-state solution in years.





I cannot picture a scenario whereas Israelis would agree with a one-state solution largely because of the demographics and the hostilities.  Israel was created as a Jewish state even though there are many Palestinians living inside, and a one-state solution would change all that in a fairly short period of time.  I also cannot picture the Palestinians, especially Hamas, supporting a one-state solution unless they were in control. 


And I've seen a recent poll, as reported in Moment magazine, whereas the majority of Palestinians living in Israel wish to keep it this way and not be part of some Palestinian state, although they certainly do wish there was less discrimination against them.

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 2:14PM #20
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 21, 2012 -- 1:45PM, vra wrote:


Feb 21, 2012 -- 11:32AM, Miraj wrote:


IS there room in the PA's or HAMAS' Palestine for an Israel next to it?   Is there in Miraj's  - I hope so!


I'm for a one-state solution. I haven't supported the two-state solution in years.





I cannot picture a scenario whereas Israelis would agree with a one-state solution largely because of the demographics and the hostilities.  Israel was created as a Jewish state even though there are many Palestinians living inside, and a one-state solution would change all that in a fairly short period of time.  I also cannot picture the Palestinians, especially Hamas, supporting a one-state solution unless they were in control. 


And I've seen a recent poll, as reported in Moment magazine, whereas the majority of Palestinians living in Israel wish to keep it this way and not be part of some Palestinian state, although they certainly do wish there was less discrimination against them.




Israel was created during a period when open prejudice and bigotry was acceptable.  Time has moved on, and the idea of two segregated societies based on ethnicity, religion and nationalism co-existing side by side is not as ideal as it once was. 


I'm Israeli, and I'm for the one-state solution.  I'm also Palestinian, and the things that most Arab Israelis think are not necessarily what they'll say to a pollster about a Palestinian .  But, the question was wrong, if they were asked about being part of a Palestinian state.  The one-state solution is not about a Palestinian state; its about reunification of the people with their land, their dignity and their history, whether they be Jewish or not.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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