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Locked: Judea Pearl: Anti-Zionism is Racism
3 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2012 - 1:33PM #1
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,040
An eternal truth

Judea Pearl: Anti-Zionism is Racism
By Lillian Swanson

Those who came to hear Judea Pearl speak last night at an event sponsored by the Simon Wiesenthal Center‘s Museum of Tolerance might have expected to be offered an array of numbers, shown detailed charts or even be given a sense of whether anti-Semitism was getting better or worse. Instead, he handed them something else entirely.

Pearl, father of slain reporter Daniel Pearl, used the annual lecture on the “state of anti-Semitism” to upend conventional thinking, and argue that anti-Zionism is a strain of hate that is far more dangerous to Jews than anti-Semitism.

He called anti-Zionism, which he defined as the denial of Israel’s right to exist in the family of nations, as “the worst form of racism.” Unlike anti-Semitism, he said, it carries a measure of social acceptance, and it “hides itself in the cloak of political debate.”
. . .

In his speech, Pearl called anti-Zionism “morally appalling and strategically harder to fight.

“Anti-Zionism targets the most vulnerable part of the Jewish people, the 6 million people of Israel. It condemns them to eternal statelessness in a very bad neighborhood,” he said.

He encouraged the use of the r-word, to call out as “racists” those who deny Israel’s right to exist.

“First, they are stunned. Then the debate shifts … into our core issue,” which is that they are denying the Jewish people that which is granted to other nations.

In a question handed up from the audience, Pearl was asked what he thought about Jews who say they are anti-Zionists. “That’s easy,” he responded. “It’s a ticket for social acceptance.”

blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/15136...

Now can we begin to talk about what the anti-Zionists really want, what they really mean, and what they really are?

Sorry, I was trying to stay on positive news today.
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2012 - 2:09PM #2
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

I agree that anti-zionism can be a code word for something else, and worse. However, even the most ardent Christian supporters of Isael, and I consider myself to be one, need to understand that whereas  the definition used by Pearle is valid, as is the explanation, it is not always valid. It is perfectly possible to be opposed to the state of Israel because one believes it was unjustly imposed upon many people who lived in the area prior to 1947. Of course it is also possible to strongly disagree with this and to believe that the re-establishment of Israel is just that, the re-establishment of a nation where it began. That happens to be my position BUT, that doesn't mean that other opinions have no merit. And being anti-zionist is not, automaically, being hateful towards all Jews.


We need to be very careful in our choice of terms, and pejoratives. When there is 'right' on both sides of a dispute, and the Palestinians certainly do have some 'right' on their side (even though I think that Israeli 'right' by far trumps that of the Palestinians...my own opinion) it is possible for honorable people to strongly disagree and to interpret similar facts very differently.


Now I do not incude groups like Hamas with honorable people. They are not. They are vile terorists who dishonor the religion they claim to represent. As far as I'm concerned they are targets who just happen not to have been destrpoyed...yet. But there are lots of honorable Arabs who are anti-zionist, and not violent who do have legitimate grievances. And arguing about them is simply something that is necessary as is some sort of negotiated settlement. In my opinion again, that settlemnet should leave a strong, independent, Israel, with just about all the territory it now controls (certaihnly ALL of the Golan Heights, and absolutely certainly Jerusalem), and a viable Palestine, with some of the Israeli settlemenets in the West Bank gone.


And in hoping for both I'm neither anti-zionist nor anti-Palestinian.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2012 - 5:17PM #3
Amin21
Posts: 4,643

Ethnic nationalism in general... gives me an icky feeling... but I am the product of the great melting pot that is America...

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2012 - 5:34PM #4
KindredSai
Posts: 5,673

I think Pearl's grieving process is blinding him of the facts.


It's the whole line reasoning, Islamist terrorists kill my son, I will therefore spout something that supports Jews.


It is not racist at all to be anti-zionist.


I am anti-zionist and I am proud, I am also anti-Islamist, anti-leninist and so forth.


At the end of the day Zionism is an ideology, not representative of all Jews.


It's not therefore on the same wave length as anti-semitism.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2012 - 10:57PM #5
rangerken
Posts: 16,408

I agree with Kindredsai when he says that Zionism is an 'ideology'. I think it does fit the definition. I also think it is perfectly possible to be anti-zionist and not the last bit anti-Jewish. Now since I support Israel as a country mainly for the Jewish people I suppose in that sense I am pro-zionist. As for Judaism iself, well, it's a religion I don't believe in, same as Hinduism, Budhism, Islam, Wicca, Great Pumpkinism, and so forth. I believe in my particular denomination of Christianity. Those who don't will all, of course, go to hell! But don't worry. When you get there I expect to be at least a shift leader on a military area furnace and I'll try to reserve a good spot for you if you tell me you were on Beliefnet. If however you get to heaven, do give my regards to my wife!


A little levity never hurts...LOL. The first five sentences are on topic and serious.


Ken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 9:43AM #6
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 16,040

Ken


I really hate to disagree with you. I have never encountered a single individual who was anti-Zionist who was not also the other thing. Never.


And yes Zionism is an ideology. It is one facet of the ideology of Judaism. It has different manifestations in different movements within Judaism but it is part and parcel of Judaism and can not be removed from Judaism.  

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 9:50AM #7
ffb
Posts: 2,198

I guess if we use this definition


"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life."


then anti-Zionism, which clearly establishes a distinction based on national origin, or this one


"Racism is much about discrimination regarding ethnic and social groups. "


under which anti-Zionism which discriminates based on social grouping and affiliation with that ideology


clearly makes anti-Zionism a form of racism.


Thank you to Sherri and KindredSai for the definitions.


cf community.beliefnet.com/go/thread/view/4...

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:26AM #8
LeahOne
Posts: 16,386

I look at it this way:  there's 'theory' and then there's practice.   In theory, communism looks great - but we all know what it's been like in every country which has adopted it.


So, in theory, a reasonable person *could* be 'anti-Zionist' and not be 'anti-Jewish'.  There's just one problem - I haven't met one, either.


I've met people who say they're 'anti-Zionist' who believe they're not 'anti-Jewish'.  But when I talk to them, I find out that their definition of 'Zionism' has nothing to do with mine.  There's nothing in my practice of Zionism which includes oppressing, abusing or displacing anyone else.  And there is certainly NOTHING in either my Zionism or Judaism about 'we're better than others' .


That idea in bold does not belong in Judaism - or in Zionism.  And that is the difference between Zionism and Islamism or Christofascism.   Yes, there are Judeofascists - but they aren't any more 'part of 'real' Judaism than other religiofascists are of their faiths.  They are a distorted lunatic fringe.  And they are NOT mainstream Israeli society, or American Jewish society.


Judaism does not operate on 'absolutes' the way Christianity does or Islam appears to:  it doesn't really have 'doctrine' or 'dogma'.  And it does not consider itself 'the One True TRUTH' - which as Ken noted, technically SOME Christian Churches claim so.  AS SOME Muslims claim so for their faith.


Of course it's only natural that that 'One True TRUTH' view is something I'd despise, no matter who's saying it.  And I think that's really the division line we're trying to identify.  'Zionism' is not 'inherently' antagonistic to any other culture or people.


However, the unfortunate fact seems to be that 'Palestinian nationalism' has been expressed mostly in terms of 'anti-Zionism'.  I can understand that tendancy - but it is counter-productive on an 'internal' basis. 


There is room either in or next to Israel for Palestinians, and for Palestine next to Israel in peace and friendship.


IS there room in the PA's or HAMAS' Palestine for an Israel next to it?   Is there in Miraj's  - I hope so!

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:31AM #9
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

I'm anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish.  I know lots of Jews who are anti-Zionist and not anti-Jewish either.  


Another thing I'm against is attempts to bully and name-call to shut down civil discourse.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2012 - 11:32AM #10
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

IS there room in the PA's or HAMAS' Palestine for an Israel next to it?   Is there in Miraj's  - I hope so!


I'm for a one-state solution. I haven't supported the two-state solution in years.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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