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Switch to Forum Live View Meat Grown in Lab, No Animals Required
6 years ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 11:56PM #71
rabello
Posts: 29,815

Feb 23, 2012 -- 3:46PM, MMarcoe wrote:


I've been a vegetarian for 20 years largely for ethical reasons. I look forward to this new development. I would probably start eating this form of meat. However, I doubt that it would taste like the real thing because the real thing has other factors going for it, such as the oils and fats.





They say they're going to add synthetic fat to the synthetic meat!! Sounds gross to me. 


Plus, I do not want to be one to put female cows through the tortures of claiming her artificially-matured eggs from her, if they're going to use embryonic stem cells -- not just for a "synthetic" piece of meat, laden with "synthetic" fat.  

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 12:40AM #72
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Surely the use of stem cell lines means that the harvesting has already been done.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 1:13AM #73
rabello
Posts: 29,815

Feb 24, 2012 -- 12:40AM, Ebon wrote:


Surely the use of stem cell lines means that the harvesting has already been done.




Cultured cell lines have a finite life span.  One of the articles about this topic mention that the researchers foresee a small herd of "donor animals" to supply the needed biological material.  And it's true, they wouldn't need a herd with large numbers of donor.


What I'm hoping is that they will use adult stem cells, which may require a biopsy


$330,000 Artificial Hamburger Slated for October


(note: I realize that some will balk at this article as it is published by treehugger dot com, which is actually a Discovery Channel publication)



 

Black Lives Matter
Muslim Lives Matter
There is no such thing as "illegals"
LGBT Lives Matter
Poor Women's Lives Matter

"If we jump too quickly to the universal formulation, 'all lives matter,' then we miss the fact that black people have not yet been included in the idea of 'all lives.'"

--Professor Judith Butler
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 9:40AM #74
Erey
Posts: 21,730

Feb 23, 2012 -- 10:26PM, solfeggio wrote:


Oh, Erey, we have heard over and over and over again that empty argument that more animals are killed harvesting crops than are killed to make beef. 


Your link was all about Austrailian agriculture, and they make the absurd argument that killing kangaroos is more humane than harvesting grain.  They don't cite any real studies, so we don't know where they got their information.


Killing insects or small mammals when harvesting corn or grains is just not the same as putting cattle, pigs, horses, sheep, and chickens through the horrors of the factory farm system.  And, although only a few studies have been done, some research has shown that far fewer rodents or insects are actually killed when harvesting crops than previously thought. 


findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDE/is_...


Various estimates put the number of animals that are killed every year in the meat, dairy and egg industries at something like 56 billion.  And, in the vast majority of cases, we are not talking about anything remotely resembling 'humane' slaughter - if there even is such a thing.


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


Even at that, meateaters would cause the deaths of insects and small mammals when crops are harvested, because such a large proportion of those crops goes to feed the cows and pigs and sheep that people are going to eat.  Even if you ate nothing but meat, you'd still be causing the deaths of many small mammals and insects.


Vegetarianism and veganism are not about being perfect, but about limiting the numbers of animals killed, and if, by being a committed vegan, I can at least cause less suffering and death, then that is at least something.


www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc


The most animal suffering and death can be prevented by following a vegan diet.


 


 





Solf,


Clearly you are too afraid to read the article.  Lots of studies, lots of examples.


they did most certainly discover that a you are killing animals with a vegan diet.


What is more you are causing them to die a slow, painful, excrutiatingly SLOW death.  Vs.  slaughter techniques that are mostly very fast and very pain free.


You are causing them to die of poison (Imagine poison!!!) The horrible pain from poison.  You are causing the babies to die of starvation because the care-giving parent can't get back to the nest to tend to them.  To say nothing of the animals that are killed out right to protect the crops. 



YOur life is causing pain and suffering to other "lesser" creatures.  You can eat all the beans and tofu you want but there is blood all over you.  Not to mention the horrible deaths you are causing to support your love of cats


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6 years ago  ::  Feb 24, 2012 - 10:29AM #75
BDboy
Posts: 8,220

Feb 23, 2012 -- 7:02PM, Erey wrote:


speaking of ethics


theconversation.edu.au/ordering-the-vege...



These guys are saying when it comes to free-range cattle and eating that beef it is more humane than eating a purely vegetarian diet.  That more animals are killed in the harvest of plants than the cattle themselves. 


Interesting I thought






 


>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree. At the same time eating beef in moderation should be our goal. When we overdo something that should come "Naturally" to us, trouble starts.


Just think how much meat people used to have 100 or 200 years ago. Contrast that with how much we consume today!!




 

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 2:47PM #76
mindis1
Posts: 9,330

Feb 24, 2012 -- 9:40AM, Erey wrote:


Feb 23, 2012 -- 10:26PM, solfeggio wrote:


Oh, Erey, we have heard over and over and over again that empty argument that more animals are killed harvesting crops than are killed to make beef. 


Your link was all about Austrailian agriculture, and they make the absurd argument that killing kangaroos is more humane than harvesting grain.  They don't cite any real studies, so we don't know where they got their information.


Killing insects or small mammals when harvesting corn or grains is just not the same as putting cattle, pigs, horses, sheep, and chickens through the horrors of the factory farm system.  And, although only a few studies have been done, some research has shown that far fewer rodents or insects are actually killed when harvesting crops than previously thought. 


findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDE/is_...


Various estimates put the number of animals that are killed every year in the meat, dairy and egg industries at something like 56 billion.  And, in the vast majority of cases, we are not talking about anything remotely resembling 'humane' slaughter - if there even is such a thing.


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-foo...


Even at that, meateaters would cause the deaths of insects and small mammals when crops are harvested, because such a large proportion of those crops goes to feed the cows and pigs and sheep that people are going to eat.  Even if you ate nothing but meat, you'd still be causing the deaths of many small mammals and insects.


Vegetarianism and veganism are not about being perfect, but about limiting the numbers of animals killed, and if, by being a committed vegan, I can at least cause less suffering and death, then that is at least something.


www.animalvisuals.org/projects/data/1mc


The most animal suffering and death can be prevented by following a vegan diet.


 


 





Solf,


Clearly you are too afraid to read the article.  Lots of studies, lots of examples.



Apparently, Erey, it is you who didn’t read the article. Solfeggio’s comments are on the mark.  


It is a stupid blog article. Link to the studies that you’re claiming the article’s conclusions are based upon.


The claim that “in Australia, producing wheat and other grains results in: at least 25 times more sentient animals being killed per kilogram of useable protein” is based on this:


Ploughing and harvesting kill small mammals, snakes, lizards and other animals in vast numbers. In addition, millions of mice are poisoned in grain storage facilities every year.


However, the largest and best-researched loss of sentient life is the poisoning of mice during plagues.


Each area of grain production in Australia has a mouse plague on average every four years, with 500-1000 mice per hectare. Poisoning kills at least 80% of the mice.


So, Australia has a “mouse plague” every four years (there is no mention of any cause of this “plague”), and because millions of these mice are killed by poisoning in grain storage facilities, the author concludes that “in Australia, producing wheat and other grains results in at least 25 times more sentient animals [are] killed per kilogram of useable protein”.


It’s stupid!

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 11:58AM #77
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Well, maybe they should eat the mice instead. Tongue Out

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6 years ago  ::  Feb 28, 2012 - 12:47PM #78
Erey
Posts: 21,730

Mindis, everything gets poisioned in crop growth - everything.  Mice, bugs, larger creatures that live on the periphery of the fields.  Many farmers who are depending on a sucessfull crop for their livelyhood actively kill animals that threaten the crop.  In parts of Africa they will kill babbons and other primates that threaten the crops.  They don't love killing the primates but they really need the crop to be sucessfull.    Then the harvesting of the crop, with the big machines maiming or  decapitating the animals that are in the foliage. 



Would you eat free-range beef before you kill a baboon for the crop you raise?  Assuming your livelyhood depends on it.



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6 years ago  ::  Feb 29, 2012 - 12:43PM #79
mindis1
Posts: 9,330

Feb 28, 2012 -- 12:47PM, Erey wrote:


Mindis, everything gets poisioned in crop growth - everything.  



What a goofy and demonstrably false claim.


The stupid blog article does not provide an iota of evidence nor a logical argument that humans eating animals reduces the millions of mice that Australians choose to poison. There is no logical argument that leads to the conclusion that humans eating animals reduces the millions of mice that Australians choose to poison. It’s a stupid blog article written by an idiot.

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6 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 12:50PM #80
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,796

I have been thinking about this topic. And realised something. Most people think their meat is grown in a lab anyway. It really would make no difference to the average meat buyer/eater.


How many people connect the burger they are eating to the cow that was cruelly slaughtered so they could have their burger? No one. How many think of the pig that was slaughtered to have their sausage no one.


And if you eat meat while thinking about the cruel and abusive way that animals are treated, you are a monster.


So grown meat in a lab would be perfect for the average meat eater. No abuse, clear conscience, and you still get to eat all the meat you want. Good idea all the way round. And the average buyer would never know the difference, or care.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
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