It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
Nobody really cares how you define Islamic, it is how Iran defines Islamic that is the issue.
Iran doesn't define Islamic for the rest of us, so we have a say.
I'm becoming very emboldened by the disinterest in anything a Muslim has to say on this board, that I know I can freely and with credibility define Judaism for the Jews. There is plenty of opportunity to do so, and I will enjoy doing it, not caring what the Jews have to say.
Go for it. We don't have to accept you as the "spokesperson" on Islam. Provide your opinion, but don't expect everyone to accept your version over thousands or millions of other Muslims.
Thousands or millions of other Muslims don't post here, and, while the views here are decidedly anti-Muslim, wishing only to post information that dehumanizes Arabs and Muslims, the opposite isn't happening.
The constant whining about what victims Jews are makes it easy to find the same sort of information on the net that dehumanizes Jews. It's VERY, VERY telling that the Muslims here are kinder to Jews than some Jews here are to Muslims so that we don't do as they do.
I think that once Arabs/Muslims actually take some RESPONSIBILITY for their actions and beliefs, things would probably go a whole lot smoother for everyone. And if you want to talk about deflection and blaming everyone, but themselves, all you have to do is come to the DI board for an true indication of how the Muslim posters feel about Jews and other religions.
Following that illogic, then all you have to do is come here to see the true hatred Jewish posters really feel toward Muslims/Arabs. But, I'm not that pesssmistic, nor that cynical. It's much healthier to see the good over the bad. You and a few others should try it.
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being, first and foremost, and as such I'm for whomever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole." ~ Malcolm X Proud supporter of the One-State Solution for Palestine
I have not noticed much kindness except from Amin, Aisha, and a couple of other kind souls.
There is certainly no kindness or even basic human decency coming from those who pretend that calls for genocide are o.k., that denial of Jewish and world history is o.k., that denial of Jewish identity is o.k., that gross mischaracterization of Jewish belief and practice is not only o.k. but correct because that is what the Koran says, etc....
Over the years I have known quite a few Iranians and have found them to be quite a bit less anti-semitic than most other non-Jewish, non-Christian, middle easterners I have met. On the other hand, the Iranian government and religious establishment is supremely anti-semitic and spews out it hate filled bile, supported by "religious doctrine" on a constant basis to a receptive audience around the globe.
- - -
"religious doctrine" is in quotes since, although the Koran and other Islamic writings can be used to support anti-semitism, there is no need to use them for that purpose and no need for Islam to be anti-semitic or to be seen as anti-semitic. Like everything else, a lot depends on who is studying Islam or explaining Isalm and what attitudes they bring with them to their studies and analysis. Sadly the Iranian Mullahs bring a fair amount of hate and feel the need to justify their hate through religion. They are not the first bunch of haters to do this and will not be the last either.
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
Nobody really cares how you define Islamic, it is how Iran defines Islamic that is the issue.
Iran doesn't define Islamic for the rest of us, so we have a say.
I'm becoming very emboldened by the disinterest in anything a Muslim has to say on this board, that I know I can freely and with credibility define Judaism for the Jews. There is plenty of opportunity to do so, and I will enjoy doing it, not caring what the Jews have to say.
Go for it. We don't have to accept you as the "spokesperson" on Islam. Provide your opinion, but don't expect everyone to accept your version over thousands or millions of other Muslims.
Thousands or millions of other Muslims don't post here, and, while the views here are decidedly anti-Muslim, wishing only to post information that dehumanizes Arabs and Muslims, the opposite isn't happening.
The constant whining about what victims Jews are makes it easy to find the same sort of information on the net that dehumanizes Jews. It's VERY, VERY telling that the Muslims here are kinder to Jews than some Jews here are to Muslims so that we don't do as they do.
I think that once Arabs/Muslims actually take some RESPONSIBILITY for their actions and beliefs, things would probably go a whole lot smoother for everyone. And if you want to talk about deflection and blaming everyone, but themselves, all you have to do is come to the DI board for an true indication of how the Muslim posters feel about Jews and other religions.
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
Nobody really cares how you define Islamic, it is how Iran defines Islamic that is the issue.
Iran doesn't define Islamic for the rest of us, so we have a say.
I'm becoming very emboldened by the disinterest in anything a Muslim has to say on this board, that I know I can freely and with credibility define Judaism for the Jews. There is plenty of opportunity to do so, and I will enjoy doing it, not caring what the Jews have to say.
Go for it. We don't have to accept you as the "spokesperson" on Islam. Provide your opinion, but don't expect everyone to accept your version over thousands or millions of other Muslims.
Thousands or millions of other Muslims don't post here, and, while the views here are decidedly anti-Muslim, wishing only to post information that dehumanizes Arabs and Muslims, the opposite isn't happening.
The constant whining about what victims Jews are makes it easy to find the same sort of information on the net that dehumanizes Jews. It's VERY, VERY telling that the Muslims here are kinder to Jews than some Jews here are to Muslims so that we don't do as they do.
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being, first and foremost, and as such I'm for whomever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole." ~ Malcolm X Proud supporter of the One-State Solution for Palestine
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
Nobody really cares how you define Islamic, it is how Iran defines Islamic that is the issue.
Iran doesn't define Islamic for the rest of us, so we have a say.
I'm becoming very emboldened by the disinterest in anything a Muslim has to say on this board, that I know I can freely and with credibility define Judaism for the Jews. There is plenty of opportunity to do so, and I will enjoy doing it, not caring what the Jews have to say.
Go for it. We don't have to accept you as the "spokesperson" on Islam. Provide your opinion, but don't expect everyone to accept your version over thousands or millions of other Muslims.
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
Nobody really cares how you define Islamic, it is how Iran defines Islamic that is the issue.
Iran doesn't define Islamic for the rest of us, so we have a say.
I'm becoming very emboldened by the disinterest in anything a Muslim has to say on this board, that I know I can freely and with credibility define Judaism for the Jews. There is plenty of opportunity to do so, and I will enjoy doing it, not caring what the Jews have to say.
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being, first and foremost, and as such I'm for whomever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole." ~ Malcolm X Proud supporter of the One-State Solution for Palestine
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
Nobody really cares how you define Islamic, it is how Iran defines Islamic that is the issue.
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
Oh common on. Stop it already. They call themselves the "Islamic Republic of Iran." You may not think they are Islamic, and you are entitled to that opinion, but there is a reason they decided to call themselves that and not something like The Times Square Republic of Iran.
I have more credibility than you to know what Islamic means. You would attempt to tell us that Israel isn't a theocracy even though it demands to be called a "Jewish state". A nation can call itself anything it wants, but that doesn't make it so.
Don't even dare think you can tell me what is Islamic and what's not unless you want to give license to everyone here to define Judaism for you.
"I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I'm a human being, first and foremost, and as such I'm for whomever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole." ~ Malcolm X Proud supporter of the One-State Solution for Palestine
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Iran is not Islamic. Nations can't be religious.
But Iran calls itself The Islamic Republic of Iran????
Also, I would not call Iran 'Islamic'...I'd call it 'Islamist' and that is intended as a pejorative, Whereas I don't conider Islamic to be a pejorative. That's just some pesonal semantics.
And, however the people of ran think and feel over all, the ruling mullahs certainly DO 'think' they are leading an Islamic country.
After all...they do say so.
Ken
Conservative, Libertarian, Life member of the NRA and VFW
It is really a pity: the ancient Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland and even helped pay for the reconstruction.
Yes, but it's even more pitiful than that, since a little more than 30 years ago the Iranians and Israel/Jews were friends. When I was young my parents hosted an Iranian exchange student, not Jewish. I remember them speaking about her in glowing terms. There's really a lot of commonality between the two peoples. The only thing that changed in the past 30+ years is that Iran became Islamic...
Indeed, only 34 years ago Iran and Israel were the closest allies in the Middle East. Sháh Muhammad Reza Pahlavi, despite his megalomania and other flaws, was a staunch promoter of Israeli-Iranian relations. Culturally, too, the Persians and the Jews value literature, arts and education far more than warfare and intimidation. Ahmadinedjad and the hardliners haven't got a Persian bone left in them. My mother, a Bahá'í like myself, moved from Iran to Finland during those times. Even the Bahá'ís weren't as badly persecuted back then. It is important for the Islamophobes to remember though that the Sháh, just like the current regime, employed the name of "Islam" to advance his policies which were diametrically contrary to those of the present regime. For those well-versed in the Qur'án neither regime qualify as particularly "Qur'ánic".
In the Kitáb-i-Aqdas (the Most Holy Book of the Bahá'ís which was revealed in 1872 in Akka [present day Israel] by the prophet-founder of the Bahá'í Faith, Bahá'u'lláh), right after the famous "Rhine" prophecy, Bahá'u'lláh makes the following thus far unfulfilled prophecy concerning the future state of affairs in the "Land of Tá" (as in Tehran), referring to Persia/Iran:
"Let nothing grieve thee, O Land of Tá. . . . Erelong will the state of affairs within thee be changed, and the reins of power fall into the hands of the people. Verily, thy Lord is the All-Knowing. His authority embraceth all things. Rest thou assured in the gracious favour of thy Lord. . . . The day is approaching when thy agitation will have transmuted into peace and quiet calm. Thus hath it been decreed in the wondrous Book."
(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, pp. 53-54)
The long-time dictator of Tunisia was ousted last year, followed by Egypt, Libya and Yemen. Bahrain and Syria are in turmoil. Some of the regime-changes may not be for the better. At least in the short run. Yet, the Arab spring, summer, autumn and winter may yet well lead to a Persian summer or autumn 2013. As a keen observer of Iranian affairs, the fulfilment of the above prophecy is, in my opinion, only a matter of a few years at the maximum. Most Persians, the majority of which are Muslims, are sick and tired of the regime.
With kind regards,
LilWabbit
Thanks for the as-usual informative and insightful post. I hope you are right but I don't think I share your optimism.
