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Outsourcing heroism
4 months ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 4:41PM #28
fodaoson
Posts: 8,476

 I thought you had a history background but did not rermember for sure.  I am also Texas Education agency  certified to Teach Social Studies (history)6-12 grades  I am also a hobbyist history  buff.   I do not let my politics and  opinion  override facts. There are many  social, political, historical  things that I do not like or agree with  but my saying something differently  does not correct(to my thinking) prevent, or change.


“I[seldom]make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.”
Edward Gibbon
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 11:17PM #27
Mlyons619
Posts: 13,276

...Mlyons is (Ithink) is interested in History as a hobby  and may have some academic studies in history...



I teach special education but I also have a history degree and am also credentialed to teach history/social sciences in high school, so it is a little bit more than just a hobby for me.


Now ya know...

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 9:41PM #26
fodaoson
Posts: 8,476

Perhaps we should listen to the misaligned but theologically correct Rev Jeremiah Wright.     Also, maybe those who live by the  sword, die by the sword. 


Whether it come from some western Religious thought, some eastern religion, philosophy or by observation of human behavior, there are basic truths.   


 


Florida 2000 Presidential election results:  G.W.  Bush 2,912 790 ,  Al Gore 2,912, 253.   How did the Supremes disenfranchise Florida voter when won the popular vote?  My, or yours or anybody  else’s  preference or opinion does not cancel out facts.  I would  have  preferred  Gore  but Bush won. I did not  like the war in Iraq but Congress authorized it so it was legal. Congress has the power to declare war  but can autaahrze mility /’;Naval action without  formal declaration of war.  Thomas Jefferson and the  8th U congress set the precedence  “Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed American vessels to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli "and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify."  Authorization to take acts of war.    


  Mlyons  leans conservative , I lean Liberal,  Mlyons is (Ithink) is interested in History as a hobby  and may have some academic studies in history.  For over 20 years I have been researching*  the Vietnam war  and in  process  how and why the US has waged war from the beginning as a country.


Mlyons an I may approach politics  from opposite sides but we both agree that facts and  History , precedence,  out way  a biased based opinion.     Please John David express your opinion but realize that when you twist facts and ignore reality no one will take you seriously

  • I have written two books , one professional journal article  and two other published  articles  on aspects of the Vietnam war.  
“I[seldom]make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.”
Edward Gibbon
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 8:57PM #25
Mlyons619
Posts: 13,276

After sixty years of appellate judges ruling in favor of a UOFA and the Supreme Court declining to rule on the issue DOES make it legal, though "right," morally speaking, is subjective.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 4:33PM #24
johndavid23
Posts: 4,260

In the same way that the Supremes disenfranchised the voters of Florida by prematurely declaring Bush the winner there, when Gore won the most votes, the President disenfranchises the voters when he declares war by fiat, by use of force, rather than allowing Congress to declare war as the Constitution declares such should happen.  That they get away with it because they can always find a judge to approve, and another to quash any challenge,  does not make it right.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 3:07PM #23
Mlyons619
Posts: 13,276

Your response makes no sense.  A Presidential succession has been established.  Congress votes the User of Force which the President uses, so, in essence, the War Clause has been followed.  Your arguments on legal precedence flies in the face of the Rule of Law in this country since its founding.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 12:26PM #22
johndavid23
Posts: 4,260

Such is no more "Constitutional doctrine" than allowing the Supremes to appoint a President:  it is merely what one branch of gov't. gets away with until the rule of law is established.  When admin./exec. and justice collude to deny Congress its' power of declaring war, such is justice denied, not rule of law.  It may be "how things go at present" and thus set a precedent, but a system of graft, theft and slaughter does not mean that such is what the Constitution established, nor that it is rule of law.  One does not kill people just because others have gotten away with it, because such has precedence; etc.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 11:52AM #21
Mlyons619
Posts: 13,276

… According to mlyons' logic, if one does something different and pretends that it is the same as what is required, it is legal as long as you can get away with it and until another branch of government calls you on it.  However, a declaration of war is exactly that; whereas a "use of force" is notably different.  Unfortunately, it requires intelligence to note the difference...




Perhaps then you should’ve paid more attention in school, because what you call "my logic" is actually what has been accepted Constitutional doctrine for the last 62 years.  Legally, it’s called precedence, and until the highest court in the land rules otherwise (which BTW it is unlikely to do seeing it has had all sorts of opportunities over the same 62 years), then it’s constitutional.


Sorry, johndavid23, but repeating a lie over and over does not make it true, nor does insulting the person who corrects you make the lie true either…

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 10:02AM #20
johndavid23
Posts: 4,260

According to mlyons' logic, if one does something different and pretends that it is the same as what is required, it is legal as long as you can get away with it and until another branch of government calls you on it.  However, a declaration of war is exactly that; whereas a "use of force" is notably different.  Unfortunately, it requires intelligence to note the difference.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 11:29PM #19
Mlyons619
Posts: 13,276

In a word -- BUKLL$#!#!!

#1  Congress passed a Use of Force Authorization.


#2  The Supreme Court has not yet heard any case that makes a UOFA unconstitutional.


#3  Until such a ruling is made, the UOFA constitutes laweful authority for the President to send troops to Afghanistan.


This has been brought up many many times on many many threads and it obviously has failed to sink in.  I can't help deliberate willful ignorance...


Tongue Out

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson
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