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Switch to Forum Live View Anti-Semitism in the Middle East
3 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2012 - 9:22PM #31
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Feb 13, 2012 -- 12:09PM, Roodog wrote:


Feb 12, 2012 -- 10:41PM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


Feb 12, 2012 -- 1:57PM, Roodog wrote:


I have also read on Yahoo that Iran had blocked internet access to 30 million of their citizens.


The Iranian Government is the worst offender.Haman now is king.



Roodog,


Iran is not an Arab country, thus not the subject of this thread.


Iran also has the largest Jewish population of any Middle East country, outside of Israel.


Who is Haman? I never heard of him?


Sherri


Yes you are right about the difference between the Iranians and the Arabs.


The Arabs are Semitic. The Iranians are Aryan. How appropriate. 



Lest I be accused of being scurrilous, I should point out the Indians are also Aryan as are the Indo Iranian peoples who live between India and Iran.

Moderated by Merope on Mar 10, 2012 - 06:01PM
For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

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If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2012 - 11:18PM #32
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 13, 2012 -- 9:22PM, Roodog wrote:


Lest I be accused of being scurrilous, I should point out the Indians are also Aryan as are the Indo Iranian peoples who live between India and Iran.



I noted that, but was too busy to mention it.  

Moderated by Merope on Mar 10, 2012 - 06:01PM
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2012 - 11:24PM #33
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Feb 13, 2012 -- 5:35PM, JAstor wrote:


Feb 13, 2012 -- 2:20PM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


On May 18, 2001, in a televised speech, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, directly attacked the Jews, calling Jews the enemies of the prophet Mohammad and threatened the Jews with expulsion and expropriation of their property, citing a similar action taken by the prophet Mohammad against the three Jewish tribes in Medina in which they were annihilated. This attack, placed in the context in which the Jews of Iran were still feeling shock of the Shiraz show trials reveals the true feelings of the Islamic Regime toward the Jews of Iran.


He, Khameini, never made the statements you falsely attribute to him in your post above. And if you persist in making these false claims, I challenge you to present his speech you base this on. 




Actually, he said a lot worse than that just a few weeks ago:


AYATOLLAH: KILL ALL JEWS, ANNIHILATE ISRAEL


By Reza Kahlili


The Iranian government, through a website proxy, has laid out the legal and religious justification for the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of its people.


The doctrine includes wiping out Israeli assets and Jewish people worldwide.


Calling Israel a danger to Islam, the conservative website Alef, with ties to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the opportunity must not be lost to remove “this corrupting material. It is a “‘jurisprudential justification” to kill all the Jews and annihilate Israel, and in that, the Islamic government of Iran must take the helm.”


The article, written by Alireza Forghani, an analyst and a strategy specialist in Khamenei’s camp, now is being run on most state-owned sites, including the Revolutionary Guards’ Fars News Agency, showing that the regime endorses this doctrine.








Haman is alive and well, JAstor.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2012 - 11:55PM #34
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Based on what I've read here, the United States is the most anti-Jewish place on earth.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 12:07AM #35
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Oh, since Arabs are Semites, and most Semites are Arab, we can't be anti-Semitic without being self-loathing.  We can be anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semitic.  It also means that folks who hurl invectives at Arabs in the way that is objectionable to do to Jews are anti-Semites.


Don't be an anti-Semite.

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 1:09AM #36
habesor
Posts: 5,773

Miraj, you wrote:


"Based on what I've read here, the United States is the most anti-Jewish place on earth."


How did you come to that conclusion?


Miraj, in another message you mentioned Arabs being semites in relation to anti-Semitism. I suppose you know that the racism of European anti-Semitism was aimed only at Jews. The reason why this was so was that for a thousand years prior to the invention of anti-Semitism, hatred of Jews was a religious based hatred. The problem faced by Jew haters in the 19th century was that many European Christians were becoming less or even anti-religious and as a consequence another reason to justify hatred of Jews had to be found. So a fraudulant science of race theory was seized upon to justify Jew hatred and it was discovered that Jews were of another non-European race; semites. In the latter half of the twentieth century racism and racial theories fell out of favor so a new justification for Jew hatred was needed. Luckily for Jew haters, Zionism was on the scene so now the hatred is directed against (now reconstituted as Europeans) Zionists just as before it was directed against (alien to Europe) Semites.  And the world goes spinning on its merry way.


Habesor


 

Habesor
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 2:29AM #37
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 14, 2012 -- 1:09AM, habesor wrote:


Miraj, you wrote:


"Based on what I've read here, the United States is the most anti-Jewish place on earth."


How did you come to that conclusion?


The OP gives examples of how "anti-Semitism" is expressed against Jews in various media. America is still part of the free world, with few restrictions on what we can say or write, unlike much of the western world. Speaking or writing in ways that can be deemed "anti-Jewish/anti-Israel" is allowed and indulged in on a daily basis.  We're free to express it, disagree and debate it, especially when someone or some place is called out for being "anti-Semitic".  We're able to fight such accusations, and win, even if true, because opinions are protected.  In 2003, for example, the ADL was ordered to pay a multi-million dollar judgement to a Colorado couple they had libeled as "anti-Semites".  That makes this an open market of ideas, be they good or bad, and a place where one is free to be anti-pretty much anything.


Miraj, in another message you mentioned Arabs being semites in relation to anti-Semitism. I suppose you know that the racism of European anti-Semitism was aimed only at Jews. The reason why this was so was that for a thousand years prior to the invention of anti-Semitism, hatred of Jews was a religious based hatred. The problem faced by Jew haters in the 19th century was that many European Christians were becoming less or even anti-religious and as a consequence another reason to justify hatred of Jews had to be found. So a fraudulant science of race theory was seized upon to justify Jew hatred and it was discovered that Jews were of another non-European race; semites. In the latter half of the twentieth century racism and racial theories fell out of favor so a new justification for Jew hatred was needed. Luckily for Jew haters, Zionism was on the scene so now the hatred is directed against (now reconstituted as Europeans) Zionists just as before it was directed against (alien to Europe) Semites.  And the world goes spinning on its merry way.


Now, as JAstor reminds us again and again, the charge of anti-Semitism is leveled at Arabs with impunity.  The interesting thig is, there are those among us who saw this coming from miles away.  An article posted in 2001 sets out the tactics used to attach the label to Arabs:


Armed with the knowledge that anti-semitism is a European manifestation, and that the term Semite refers to Arabs and not only Jews, the question begs itself: why would two policy-makers (among many others) publicly accuse Arabs of anti-semitism?


The answer is no real mystery, but does present itself in several mathematical stages in lieu of the Arab-Israeli conflict:



  1. Arabs are highly critical of Israeli policies towards Palestine, the Golan Heights and south Lebanon. Any criticism of Israeli policies, including the internationally condemned occupation of Palestinian territories, is termed anti-semitic.


  2. When the term ‘anti-semitic’ is used, it automatically invokes images of Hitler, Nazi Germany, the Holocaust, Auschwitz, Kristallnacht and the suffering of European Jews 60 years ago.


  3. Alleged Arab anti-semitism will now be seen in light of European anti-semitism and an automatic correlation will be made between the Arab-Israeli conflict and the Nazi persecution and murder of Jews.


  4. Alleged Arab anti-semitism will now be associated with racist bigotry (anti-Jewishness) and the crux of the matter, political criticism of Israeli policies will be institutionally shelved.

  5. Arabs will now be referred to as those calling for the extermination of all Jews in much the same way the Nazis did with the ‘Final Solution’.


Viola! 



The problem is, there are nations in verbal combat with Israel.  When you lower the bar for leveling slurs and make "anti-Semitism" and easy line to cross, it encourages more intense rhetoric in what is essentially a poltical war of words.  




Moderated by Merope on Mar 10, 2012 - 06:05PM
Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 5:10AM #38
shmuelgoldstein
Posts: 2,500

Feb 14, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Miraj wrote:


Oh, since Arabs are Semites, and most Semites are Arab, we can't be anti-Semitic without being self-loathing.  We can be anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semitic.  It also means that folks who hurl invectives at Arabs in the way that is objectionable to do to Jews are anti-Semites.


Don't be an anti-Semite.




Kewl.


Using a similar logic, then all residents of Israel and the PA areas are Palestinians.


Good to know.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 5:23AM #39
Miraj
Posts: 5,021

Feb 14, 2012 -- 5:10AM, shmuelgoldstein wrote:


Feb 14, 2012 -- 12:07AM, Miraj wrote:


Oh, since Arabs are Semites, and most Semites are Arab, we can't be anti-Semitic without being self-loathing.  We can be anti-Jewish, anti-Zionist, but not anti-Semitic.  It also means that folks who hurl invectives at Arabs in the way that is objectionable to do to Jews are anti-Semites.


Don't be an anti-Semite.




Kewl.


Using a similar logic, then all residents of Israel and the PA areas are Palestinians.


Good to know.




Not yet, but maybe someday . . .

Disclaimer: The opinions of this member are not primarily informed by western ethnocentric paradigms, stereotypes rooted in anti-Muslim/Islam hysteria, "Israel can do no wrong" intransigence, or the perceived need to protect the Judeo-Christian world from invading foreign religions and legal concepts.  By expressing such views, no inherent attempt is being made to derail or hijack threads, but that may be the result.  The result is not the responsibility of this member.


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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 8:28AM #40
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,519

Feb 13, 2012 -- 11:24PM, Roodog wrote:


Feb 13, 2012 -- 5:35PM, JAstor wrote:


Feb 13, 2012 -- 2:20PM, SherriMunnerlyn wrote:


On May 18, 2001, in a televised speech, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, directly attacked the Jews, calling Jews the enemies of the prophet Mohammad and threatened the Jews with expulsion and expropriation of their property, citing a similar action taken by the prophet Mohammad against the three Jewish tribes in Medina in which they were annihilated. This attack, placed in the context in which the Jews of Iran were still feeling shock of the Shiraz show trials reveals the true feelings of the Islamic Regime toward the Jews of Iran.


He, Khameini, never made the statements you falsely attribute to him in your post above. And if you persist in making these false claims, I challenge you to present his speech you base this on. 




Actually, he said a lot worse than that just a few weeks ago:


AYATOLLAH: KILL ALL JEWS, ANNIHILATE ISRAEL


By Reza Kahlili


The Iranian government, through a website proxy, has laid out the legal and religious justification for the destruction of Israel and the slaughter of its people.


The doctrine includes wiping out Israeli assets and Jewish people worldwide.


Calling Israel a danger to Islam, the conservative website Alef, with ties to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the opportunity must not be lost to remove “this corrupting material. It is a “‘jurisprudential justification” to kill all the Jews and annihilate Israel, and in that, the Islamic government of Iran must take the helm.”


The article, written by Alireza Forghani, an analyst and a strategy specialist in Khamenei’s camp, now is being run on most state-owned sites, including the Revolutionary Guards’ Fars News Agency, showing that the regime endorses this doctrine.



Haman is alive and well, JAstor.



JAstor,


I go to the link you provide here, and the article does not even address one single word Khameini has said, despite the false title placed on the article and your very own comments about the article.


This is a perfect illustration of how false propaganda is used to demonize and spread lies.


This particular piece of propaganda is inconsistent on its face. Because the content of the article is inconsistent with the allegation in the article's title. That should be obvious to those who read it.  


Title of Article Ayatollah: Kill All Jews, Annihilate Israel


Article: No quote of Khameini saying this at any time and anywhere is provided, no words of Khameini are addressed


Your statement: Actually he said a lot worse than that just a few weeks ago


Sherri

Moderated by Merope on Mar 10, 2012 - 06:09PM
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