Post Reply
Page 4 of 4  •  Prev 1 2 3 4
Switch to Forum Live View Education Under Fire
3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 6:54PM #31
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Feb 14, 2012 -- 6:49PM, Erey wrote:


I think in places like Iran at the end of the day if you are a religious minority of if you carry ideas or are interested in a lifestyle that offends the ruling theocracy then it is going to not be a safe or reasonable place for you.  This is unfair because the Bahai are not from another country and have as much right to be there as any other Iranian.  However in some cases it is better to be safe than insist the world treat you fairly.



There is no great way to ensure fairness for people in other countries, too many unintended consequences. 



I do think public awareness and petitions help because if there is enough exposure the Iranian govt tends to back down out of embarrasement. 




So sign the petition.


Or be more concerned about the minimal education marginal children in the US receive : that is a disgrace.


No petition is going to influence the PTB in Iran. Iran is a rogue nation.


 




 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 9:14PM #32
Erey
Posts: 18,722

I don't know Jane, not a petition per-see but international attention does seem to influence Iran, albeit in an unreliable fashion.


I can recall several  instances in recent  years where women in Iran (it is always a woman) scheduled for execution for some such sex outside of marriage and with some international media exposure the women were released.



I am not an expert on Iran but the country seems to have a tendancy to want to show a good face, or at least not appear too monsterous.



I am of the oppinon that this idea that american education is awful is a kind of  self-loathing nonsense and without any significant merit. 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 9:48PM #33
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Feb 14, 2012 -- 9:14PM, Erey wrote:


I don't know Jane, not a petition per-see but international attention does seem to influence Iran, albeit in an unreliable fashion.


I can recall several  instances in recent  years where women in Iran (it is always a woman) scheduled for execution for some such sex outside of marriage and with some international media exposure the women were released.



I am not an expert on Iran but the country seems to have a tendancy to want to show a good face, or at least not appear too monsterous.



I am of the oppinon that this idea that american education is awful is a kind of  self-loathing nonsense and without any significant merit. 




American education at the best levels is very fine. Our universities draw from the world over. Schools in areas with high real estate taxes provide excellent educations : I know because my kids and now my grandkids attend or attended them. Most here know my oldest grandson is on scholarship at MIT and he attended public high school. As a high school junior his SAT/ACT scores were perfect; he ws recruited by Cal Tech, Stanford and MIT. His parents also graduated from GA TECH and Chapel Hill in Math. My very handicapped grandson is in AP classes as are his sister and cousins. My handicapped grandson's Mom graduated from GT with high honors and made certain he would be mainstreamed in school. Joe has been able to do calculus in his head since he was 11 or so.


Home life and where children live greatly influence their educations. I've found it fascinating that Asia/American children become fluent in  standard American English very early while the children of other immigrants and children from more impoverished backgrounds do not.


We have schools in this country that do not always serve all of our children well. That is not some self-loathing nonsence.


Think as you will..................We are rarely on the same page. The world won't end on that account.


 


 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 9:59PM #34
mountain_man
Posts: 39,455

Feb 14, 2012 -- 6:54PM, jane2 wrote:

Or be more concerned about the minimal education marginal children in the US receive : that is a disgrace.


Why not be concerned about all children around the world? We all should also be concerned about religious persecution around the world.


No petition is going to influence the PTB in Iran. Iran is a rogue nation.


That's my point. This petition is diverting people from taking real action. Iran will dismiss, without reading and with prejudice, any kind of a petition from the West. However, they will listen, maybe a little bit, to the Arab League and to some of the Muslim nations in the UN. There are better routes to effect Iran than an online petition.


At no time have I ever said to ignore the problem or wanted to "argue personalities" as some misguided individuals have suggested.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 1:25AM #35
rabello
Posts: 21,284

Feb 14, 2012 -- 9:59PM, mountain_man wrote:


There are better routes to effect(sic) Iran than an online petition.




Well, it would be helpful if you could tell us what ordinary people from around the world should do that their own governments won't do, if they are concerned about the children of the world, and about religious persecution, as you put it.


world citizen already posted the symbolic meaning of this global effort, sponsored by an effective and respected human rights advocacy group like Amnesty International, and I think it's better to do something small that might seem like a waste of time to some rather than do nothing at all.



 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 2:38AM #36
rabello
Posts: 21,284

Just to try to keep the thread on track (HINT, HINT -- it isn't about the so-called "war" on education in America, or about the educational inequities in America, or the quality of education in America, or the situation in Greece --where'd THAT come from??-- etc), here is an informative CNN article that is linked on the "Education Under Fire" website that will (hopefully) help to inform posts going forward:


Iran bans 'underground university,' brands it 'extremist cult'



STORY HIGHLIGHTS


* The Baha'i -- Iran's largest religious minority -- are systematically excluded from higher education


* In response, Baha'is have improvised an informal, semi-underground college since 1987 (Baha’i Institute for Higher Education)


* Iran's raid on the institution earlier this year has prompted an international outcry


******


In May, more than 30 Baha'i homes across Iran were raided as part of a crackdown on BIHE. The institution was subsequently declared illegal, according to human rights groups, and seven professors and administrators were last month sentenced to four and five years each, for being involved in an illegal group intending to commit crimes against national security.


The global campaign against Iran's persecution of Baha'is in education is gathering momentum, with the screening of "Education Under Fire," a documentary film on the issue at a number of U.S. universities this month.


Nobel Peace Prize laureates Archbishop Desmond Tutu and East Timor president Jose Ramos-Horta have signed an open letter calling on Iran to unconditionally drop the charges against the Baha'i educators


Iran's persecution of Baha'is is not limited to the educational sector, according to human rights groups. Seven Baha'i religious leaders are currently imprisoned for crimes including "espionage for Israel," "insulting religious sanctities" and "propaganda against the system," according to Amnesty International.




There are many news articles about the "Education Under Fire" campaign linked on the website for those who are interested.


There is also information about the team that comprises the "Education Under Fire" project:



Founding


David Hoffman, Founder / Executive Producer


In January, 2011, Hoffman formed Single Arrow Productions and began documenting on film individual accounts of human rights abuses in Iran, producing a series of short documentaries - Angels of Iran - featuring Baha’is, Kurds, student activists and others who are targets of the Iranian regime.


In response to the May 2011 attack on the Baha'i Institute for Higher Education (BIHE), Hoffman quickly assembled resources to launch a new campaign and documentary under the same name, 'Education Under Fire.'


See also: State of Formation




world citizen has already posted this information and links. 


If those who want to discuss the crisis in Greece, or the problems in American education, can find an equivalent advocacy campaign as "Education Under Fire", they are certainly free to start a thread about it. Hopefully they will start a thread about it, providing information and petitions that interested parties can sign.


This one, though, is about the arrest of educators for educating people of a religious minority in Iran.  Even the BIHE's attorney has been detained.   And the global campaign that has begun to protest the persecution of the Baha'i in Iran.


Personally, I would rather be standing with Desmond Tutu and Jose Ramos-Hota, and Amnesty International,  than standing on the sidelines frowning and wagging my finger "can't work/waste of time/more important things YOU should stand for/can't work/waste of time/etcetcetc"


 


 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 8:40AM #37
TemplarS
Posts: 6,812

I agree, Rabello.  Stand up and be counted.  It is the only right thing to do.


Sometimes single acts of seeming futility (Mohammad Bouazizi) can change nations.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 12:05PM #38
Erey
Posts: 18,722

I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the effectiveness of petitions.  In fact it is pretty logical to doubt they do anything.  However petitions are just one aspect of international pressure and there is plenty of reason to think Iran does seem to respond to international pressure.  So I am urging Jane and MM to reconsider thier oppinion on the subject - only as it relates to Iran.  I am not convinced petitions are universaly effective.



This article is very interesting and deals with that subject  www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/136651/s...


Basically Iranian govt has a very tentative hold on legitimacy with the Iranian people.  Iran can prevent it's own media from reporting on it's human rights abuses but it can't prevent the international media from doing so.  It the international media reports loudly enough it gets into Iran and ups the potential for govt. overthrow.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 23, 2012 - 1:16AM #39
rangerken
Posts: 16,406

This thread was moved fro the Hot Topics Zone

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 4 of 4  •  Prev 1 2 3 4
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook