Post Reply
Page 1 of 6  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Separation of church and state.
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 12:49PM #1
Marcion
Posts: 2,883

Not only does separation of church and state apply to government interference with religion it also applies to religion interfering with the state.

If it was up to the Catholic Bishops they would reinstitute the inquistion like the good old days.

newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/09/cardinal...


 


____________________________________________
Edited to provide working link.
Moderated by Merope on Feb 09, 2012 - 12:54PM
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 2:33PM #2
mountain_man
Posts: 39,296

What many forget is that the current pope was the head of The Inquisition before being promoted. Of course, they changed the name, but it's still the same thing.


If these preachers try to interfere with our government, or laws, and such, they should loose their tax free status. These preachers have no right what so ever to force their beliefs against birth control on those not of their religion - or even of their religion. Instead they need to come to grips with a modern world.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 3:22PM #3
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Feb 9, 2012 -- 2:33PM, mountain_man wrote:


What many forget is that the current pope was the head of The Inquisition before being promoted. Of course, they changed the name, but it's still the same thing.


If these preachers try to interfere with our government, or laws, and such, they should loose their tax free status. These preachers have no right what so ever to force their beliefs against birth control on those not of their religion - or even of their religion. Instead they need to come to grips with a modern world.




Benedict does not favor separation of church and state and neither does a subset of Curial hierarchs : it is anathema to them.


The current clutch of American bishops for the most part were chosen for their loyalty to papal thinking. So we have Dolan in New York--a disaster. Dolan is St. Louis, a mid-western conservative who seems to think American Catholics by and large give a hoot about what he says. American Catholics overwhelmingly rejected Pail VI's thinking in the encyclical Humanae Vitae two generations ago and many or most are pro-choice for others. Benedict is an anarchronism by choice.


Moderate and liberal Catholics have left the American RCC by the millions because of Rome's heavy hand. Can the bishops create some havoc? Oh yes.


 



 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 5:36PM #4
mountain_man
Posts: 39,296

Feb 9, 2012 -- 3:22PM, jane2 wrote:

....Moderate and liberal Catholics have left the American RCC by the millions because of Rome's heavy hand. Can the bishops create some havoc? Oh yes.


Then they, the US Catholics, should break away from Rome.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 5:44PM #5
teilhard
Posts: 51,056

My own Favorite Theologian on Church-State Questions is (the late) John Courtney Murray, S.J. ...


He understood that The Authority of The State and The Authority of The Church are DIFFERENT ...


ONLY The State has "Temporal" Authority, i.e., can collect Taxes, raise an Army, conduct War, pass and enact Laws and Statutes, operate Law Courts, etc., etc. ...


BUT ... Since The Authority of The Church is PURELY "Spiritual" Authority, The Church therefore has Authority that is SUPERIOR to that of The State, such that The Church can COMMAND The State to do ITS Duty ... (A Recent shining Example was St. Archbishop Romero's Sermon -- "In the Name of God I beg of you ...  I COMMAND you: STOP  THE  KILLING ...")


So ... Murray "got it" correctly in my Opinion, in understanding that the proper INTERFACE of Church and State is in the Society ... So clearly, since Bishops, Clergy, and Laity are CITIZENS, the important Distinction is most properly The DISTINCTION of Church and State rather than a supposed "Separation" of Church and State ... 

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 5:45PM #6
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Feb 9, 2012 -- 5:36PM, mountain_man wrote:


Feb 9, 2012 -- 3:22PM, jane2 wrote:

....Moderate and liberal Catholics have left the American RCC by the millions because of Rome's heavy hand. Can the bishops create some havoc? Oh yes.


Then they, the US Catholics, should break away from Rome.




In essence many of us have. No money, no attendance. Some polls say that ex-Catholics are the second largest religious group by numbers in the US--behind the Catholics.




 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 6:36PM #7
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Feb 9, 2012 -- 5:44PM, teilhard wrote:


My own Favorite Theologian on Church-State Questions is (the late) John Courtney Murray, S.J. ...


He understood that The Authority of The State and The Authority of The Church are DIFFERENT ...


ONLY The State has "Temporal" Authority, i.e., can collect Taxes, raise an Army, conduct War, pass and enact Laws and Statutes, operate Law Courts, etc., etc. ...


BUT ... Since The Authority of The Church is PURELY "Spiritual" Authority, The Church therefore has Authority that is SUPERIOR to that of The State, such that The Church can COMMAND The State to do ITS Duty ... (A Recent shining Example was St. Archbishop Romero's Sermon -- "In the Name of God I beg of you ...  I COMMAND you: STOP  THE  KILLING ...")



The authority of the Church is inferior to that of the state. The state has authority over everybody. The Church has authority only over those who agree to accept it. No Church will ever have authority over me.

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 7:01PM #8
mountain_man
Posts: 39,296

Feb 9, 2012 -- 5:45PM, jane2 wrote:

In essence many of us have. No money, no attendance. Some polls say that ex-Catholics are the second largest religious group by numbers in the US--behind the Catholics.


While that may be true, the fastest growing group are us non believers. Cool

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 7:09PM #9
jane2
Posts: 14,295

Feb 9, 2012 -- 7:01PM, mountain_man wrote:


Feb 9, 2012 -- 5:45PM, jane2 wrote:

In essence many of us have. No money, no attendance. Some polls say that ex-Catholics are the second largest religious group by numbers in the US--behind the Catholics.


While that may be true, the fastest growing group are us non believers. Cool




No problem for me........................




 

discuss catholicism
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2012 - 9:54PM #10
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,155

Feb 9, 2012 -- 12:49PM, Marcion wrote:


Not only does separation of church and state apply to government interference with religion it also applies to religion interfering with the state.

If it was up to the Catholic Bishops they would reinstitute the inquistion like the good old days.

newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/09/cardinal...


 


____________________________________________
Edited to provide working link.



NO, separation Church and state  addressed only the Government not  religion


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances


 


Where is an encumbrance  on  religion not to  “interfere with Government”   The people (including church goers)  can peaceably assemble and petition the Government for redress of grievance, Including the government  interfering or establishing Religion.

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 6  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook