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Switch to Forum Live View Ron Paul and the expansion of rights?
3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 9:10PM #171
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:01PM, costrel wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 8:31PM, Ur2 wrote:

costrel,


What was beaten into you is of no concern to me on this subject. It has nothing to do with this issue nor what Ron Paul's ideas are on this issue. Use the old Separation of Church and State diatribe on yourself this time instead of the Right and I promise, you'll soon get over your imaginery problem. That's the way mythological religious teachings are taught to the Right whenever we speak of these types of problems.


You'll get over it. If you're not careful, you'll soon be believing Creationism again.


Thanx,


Ur2 


I initially brought up birth control because


Tenac claimed that one of the evils of abortion was that it was removing black children from society,


and I referenced Dorothy Day's statement that both birth control and abortion are forms of genocide because they both remove black children from society, and I asked him what he thought of that. He, of course, ignored my question. Then, Girl Christian asserted that abortion should be the rights of states, and I explained to her that making abortion the rights of states would be just as stupid as giving the states rights to outlaw birth control, which I could easily see happening in states that are predominately Catholic (after all, Catholic politicans understand that if they vote in ways that the Church does not approve, the Church has the right to deny them communion). So I was merely responding to what other posters were saying, and what I said is therefore relevant to the discussion on states' rights. 


 




Costel--Hi--I shortened andn changed the paragraphing on your post because the only part (which I bolded) I want to tell you about is TENAC's sudden interest in "Saving" "Black babies."


Turns out--if you read the conservative blogs and conservative legislators--this is THIS WEEK's  NEW issue they are trying to present as a means of making a Woman's right to choose a "Terrible thiung."


Note that they (including TENAC and his ilk here)  NEVER talk about "Black babies" and their wellbeing when it comes time for RTPERs to try to make more and more cuts in health and other basic services....



 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 9:20PM #172
costrel
Posts: 6,226

Dec 6, 2011 -- 6:44PM, Erey wrote:

SO WHAT!!!!!!!  What in the fu*ing hell does catholic moral values have to do with Ron Paul????  You might as well start babbling about the ancient hindu values that stated that for every menstral cycle a unmarried daughter had was the equivalent to killing a child.  The father was killing his daughter's children because he had not married her off and given them the opportunity to be realised.  How would that be relevant?   Is Ron Paul a die hard catholic?  how can you make this even make any sense at all?


Go back and read my post #72 which was in response to Tenac's claim that one of the evils of abortion is that it is a racist way of removing black children from society. The Catholic social activist Dorothy Day would have agreed with him, but she also claimed that birth control was doing the same thing. So before you condemn my responses here, please read the entire thread first in order to understand the context of why I mentioned birth control in the first place. I should have learned my lesson months ago, though. Protestants and Evangelicals will get all morally indignant about abortion, but they cannot appreciate that abortion is but one part of being "pro-life." Pro-life also means being against birth control, the death penalty, and war. 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 9:33PM #173
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:20PM, costrel wrote:

 Protestants and Evangelicals will get all morally indignant about abortion, but they cannot appreciate that abortion is but one part of being "pro-life." Pro-life also means being against birth control, the death penalty, and war. 




so RC's are the only one's allowed to define pro-life?

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 9:37PM #174
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,393

Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:20PM, costrel wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 6:44PM, Erey wrote:

SO WHAT!!!!!!!  What in the fu*ing hell does catholic moral values have to do with Ron Paul????  You might as well start babbling about the ancient hindu values that stated that for every menstral cycle a unmarried daughter had was the equivalent to killing a child.  The father was killing his daughter's children because he had not married her off and given them the opportunity to be realised.  How would that be relevant?   Is Ron Paul a die hard catholic?  how can you make this even make any sense at all?


Go back and read my post #72 which was in response to Tenac's claim that one of the evils of abortion is that it is a racist way of removing black children from society. The Catholic social activist Dorothy Day would have agreed with him, but she also claimed that birth control was doing the same thing. So before you condemn my responses here, please read the entire thread first in order to understand the context of why I mentioned birth control in the first place. I should have learned my lesson months ago, though. Protestants and Evangelicals will get all morally indignant about abortion, but they cannot appreciate that abortion is but one part of being "pro-life." Pro-life also means being against birth control, the death penalty, and war. 





Pro-life only means being against birth control to some Catholics. It has not traditionally meant being against birth control (or even death penalty or war). It's a term used only for abortion debates started by those that oppose abortion.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 9:53PM #175
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:37PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:20PM, costrel wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 6:44PM, Erey wrote:

SO WHAT!!!!!!!  What in the fu*ing hell does catholic moral values have to do with Ron Paul????  You might as well start babbling about the ancient hindu values that stated that for every menstral cycle a unmarried daughter had was the equivalent to killing a child.  The father was killing his daughter's children because he had not married her off and given them the opportunity to be realised.  How would that be relevant?   Is Ron Paul a die hard catholic?  how can you make this even make any sense at all?


Go back and read my post #72 which was in response to Tenac's claim that one of the evils of abortion is that it is a racist way of removing black children from society. The Catholic social activist Dorothy Day would have agreed with him, but she also claimed that birth control was doing the same thing. So before you condemn my responses here, please read the entire thread first in order to understand the context of why I mentioned birth control in the first place. I should have learned my lesson months ago, though. Protestants and Evangelicals will get all morally indignant about abortion, but they cannot appreciate that abortion is but one part of being "pro-life." Pro-life also means being against birth control, the death penalty, and war. 





Pro-life only means being against birth control to some Catholics. It has not traditionally meant being against birth control (or even death penalty or war). It's a term used only for abortion debates started by those that oppose abortion.





GC--sorry--I was raised Catholic and your assertion about "pro-life" is wrong. Just ask the pope.


The correct phrase used against birth control of ANY kind is "being open to life."


 If I remembr correctly Costrel is an openly self-identified Cradle Catholic too.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 9:55PM #176
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
Keep arguing abortion instead of the answering Davelaw's questions, and it's coitins for this thread...coitins, i tells ya.

Makes a great red-herring to lead astray so as to avoid having to answer the pointed questions about PROVING that Paul intends to do what his detractors repeatedly insist he WOULD do, sans any proof whatsoever.  Workin' pretty good to establish THAT end, ain't it?

With goodwill to all the People-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 10:12PM #177
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,393

Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:53PM, Wanderingal wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:37PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 9:20PM, costrel wrote:


Dec 6, 2011 -- 6:44PM, Erey wrote:

SO WHAT!!!!!!!  What in the fu*ing hell does catholic moral values have to do with Ron Paul????  You might as well start babbling about the ancient hindu values that stated that for every menstral cycle a unmarried daughter had was the equivalent to killing a child.  The father was killing his daughter's children because he had not married her off and given them the opportunity to be realised.  How would that be relevant?   Is Ron Paul a die hard catholic?  how can you make this even make any sense at all?


Go back and read my post #72 which was in response to Tenac's claim that one of the evils of abortion is that it is a racist way of removing black children from society. The Catholic social activist Dorothy Day would have agreed with him, but she also claimed that birth control was doing the same thing. So before you condemn my responses here, please read the entire thread first in order to understand the context of why I mentioned birth control in the first place. I should have learned my lesson months ago, though. Protestants and Evangelicals will get all morally indignant about abortion, but they cannot appreciate that abortion is but one part of being "pro-life." Pro-life also means being against birth control, the death penalty, and war. 





Pro-life only means being against birth control to some Catholics. It has not traditionally meant being against birth control (or even death penalty or war). It's a term used only for abortion debates started by those that oppose abortion.





GC--sorry--I was raised Catholic and your assertion about "pro-life" is wrong. Just ask the pope.


The correct phrase used against birth control of ANY kind is "being open to life."


 If I remembr correctly Costrel is an openly self-identified Cradle Catholic too.


 




The Pope did not coin the term 'pro-life' in regards to abortion nor does the Catholic Church define what 'pro-life' means. "Pro-life" was coined by the leaders of the opposition to Roe v Wade in 73 rather than using 'anti-abortion' to specifically show that they believed abortion is the taking of a human life rather than an issue over reproductive rights, IOW, the 'right to life' group.  

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 10:26PM #178
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

GC-


-I apologize that having been born and raised a Catholic I know what I'm talking about.....

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 10:32PM #179
Ur2
Posts: 4,087

wg,


Being raised Catholic means nothing except it's just one more of your red herrings thrown out as just one more way to avoid actually address anything brought forward.


Thanx,


Ur2

Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

The next best thing to being clever is being able to quote someone who is.

"Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with this, except it ain't so."
Samuel Langhorne Clemens
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3 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2011 - 10:46PM #180
Erey
Posts: 18,940

I happen to know that the majority of catholic women embrace the option to use birth control and think this whole birth control = abortion nonsense is ridiculous and only for pious idiots.  


I am pretty sure the pope is not going to hang his hat on that piece of foolishness.

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