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In the 1960s when abortion was still illegal, I witnessed, as an OB/GYN resident, the abortion of a fetus that weighed approximately 2 pounds. It was placed in a bucket, crying and struggling to breathe, and the medical personnel pretended not to notice. Soon the crying stopped. This harrowing event forced me to think more seriously about this important issue. That same day in the OB suite, an early delivery occurred and the infant boy was only slightly larger than the one that was just aborted. But in this room everybody did everything conceivable to save this child's life. My conclusion that day was that we were overstepping the bounds of morality by picking and choosing who should live and who should die. There was no consistent moral basis to the value of life under these circumstances. Some people believe that being pro-choice is being on the side of freedom. I've never understood how killing a human being, albeit a small one in a special place, is portrayed as a precious right.

Show me where Paul wants to legislate your body.

Thanx,

Ur2

Dec 6, 2011 -- 6:25PM, costrel wrote:

Dec 6, 2011 -- 5:34PM, Ur2 wrote:

Ron Paul is scientically correct. Interrupting conception is not abortion. [...] You really don't know much on this subject do you?

And you don't seem to know much about Catholic moral values concerning abortion and birth control. I had it beaten into me since 7th grade catechism classes that morally and ethically, there is no difference between a man wearing a condom during intercourse to stop an unwanted pregnancy from happening and a woman aborting her fetus to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Both are forms of killing children. (Thankfully, I disagreed with these Christian moral values that my CCD instructors tried to indoctrinate me with, and I see nothing immoral or unethical with birth control or abortion.) 

Costrel--I don't know about you but I've noticed that there is a noticeable lack of actual factual info being referenced and understood by RPaul supporters on this thread.

Dec 6, 2011 -- 6:25PM, costrel wrote:

Dec 6, 2011 -- 5:34PM, Ur2 wrote:

Ron Paul is scientically correct. Interrupting conception is not abortion. [...] You really don't know much on this subject do you?

And you don't seem to know much about Catholic moral values concerning abortion and birth control. I had it beaten into me since 7th grade catechism classes that morally and ethically, there is no difference between a man wearing a condom during intercourse to stop an unwanted pregnancy from happening and a woman aborting her fetus to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Both are forms of killing children. (Thankfully, I disagreed with these Christian moral values that my CCD instructors tried to indoctrinate me with, and I see nothing immoral or unethical with birth control or abortion.) 

SO WHAT!!!!!!!  What in the fu*ing hell does catholic moral values have to do with Ron Paul????  You might as well start babbling about the ancient hindu values that stated that for every menstral cycle a unmarried daughter had was the equivalent to killing a child.  The father was killing his daughter's children because he had not married her off and given them the opportunity to be realised.  How would that be relevant?   Is Ron Paul a die hard catholic?  how can you make this even make any sense at all?

costrel,

What was beaten into you is of no concern to me on this subject. It has nothing to do with this issue nor what Ron Paul's ideas are on this issue. Use the old Separation of Church and State diatribe on yourself this time instead of the Right and I promise, you'll soon get over your imaginery problem. That's the way mythological religious teachings are taught to the Right whenever we speak of these types of problems.

You'll get over it. If you're not careful, you'll soon be believing Creationism again.

Thanx,

Ur2 

Dec 6, 2011 -- 8:31PM, Ur2 wrote:

costrel,

What was beaten into you is of no concern to me on this subject. It has nothing to do with this issue nor what Ron Paul's ideas are on this issue. Use the old Separation of Church and State diatribe on yourself this time instead of the Right and I promise, you'll soon get over your imaginery problem. That's the way mythological religious teachings are taught to the Right whenever we speak of these types of problems.

You'll get over it. If you're not careful, you'll soon be believing Creationism again.

Thanx,

Ur2 

I initially brought up birth control because Tenac claimed that one of the evils of abortion was that it was removing black children from society, and I referenced Dorothy Day's statement that both birth control and abortion are forms of genocide because they both remove black children from society, and I asked him what he thought of that. He, of course, ignored my question. Then, Girl Christian asserted that abortion should be the rights of states, and I explained to her that making abortion the rights of states would be just as stupid as giving the states rights to outlaw birth control, which I could easily see happening in states that are predominately Catholic (after all, Catholic politicans understand that if they vote in ways that the Church does not approve, the Church has the right to deny them communion). So I was merely responding to what other posters were saying, and what I said is therefore relevant to the discussion on states' rights. 

I do see some hope, though, on threads like these. If Protestants and Evangelicals can see nothing immoral or unethical with the use of birth control, perhaps eventually they will see nothing immoral or unethical with abortion as well. So there is a glimmer of hope. 

By the way: I have NEVER believed in Creationism. I was a Catholic, remember. Catholics by and large don't believe in stupid, idiotic pseudo-scientific delusions like Creationism and Intelligent Design. They accept evolution and an old earth. My priest even taught evolution in catechism class when I was a child. Protestants and Evangelicals, on the other hand, are the ones who generally believe in that pseudo-scientific BS known as Creationism and Intelligent Design.