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Switch to Forum Live View The Palestinian Proposal
3 years ago  ::  Oct 03, 2011 - 2:26PM #1
Shusha
Posts: 4,360
If you were to draft a comprehensive proposal as an opening for negotiations from either the Palestinian side or the Israeli side, what would it say?


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3 years ago  ::  Oct 03, 2011 - 8:12PM #2
KindredSai
Posts: 5,385

Oct 3, 2011 -- 2:26PM, Shusha wrote:

If you were to draft a comprehensive proposal as an opening for negotiations from either the Palestinian side or the Israeli side, what would it say?




That would depend on the matter of Israel halting settlement building.


There can be no real negotiations about a 2 State solution while Israel builds on a designated State.




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3 years ago  ::  Oct 03, 2011 - 8:28PM #3
Shusha
Posts: 4,360

KSai,


Would it be okay with you to leave that part out of this thread?  We could talk about that issue at some point, but it kinda defeats the purpose of this thread.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 03, 2011 - 9:30PM #4
JAstor
Posts: 3,957

I've said it before. I'm for land for peace. But not land for piece -- i.e. piece by piece reduce Israel's ability to defend itself. 


My soluation requires the Arab side to really want peace. However, it is pretty obvious that they don't. They want piece. 


Hamas wants more than piece. They want whole.


Hezbollah wants whole.


Muslim Brotherhood wants whole. 


Iran wants whole. 


In this climate, my suggestion has no partners. But in theory that is what I think is the only solution. Land for peace (monetary compensation to those with legitimate, provable claims). 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 03, 2011 - 9:54PM #5
Shusha
Posts: 4,360

JAstor,


How much land?  Which land?  Jerusalem?  Holy sites?


Financial compensation for those claiming right of return?  Or do they return?


 


Would you name consequences for breach of peace?


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 04, 2011 - 10:38AM #6
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,354

Susha


OK I will take you up on this.


1. Palestine recognizes Israel as the Jewish State and gives up all claims to any territory within Israel. (and of course Israel recognizes Palestine as the Palestinian state ...)


2. Palestine agrees to cease all incitement against Israel and Jews (and while it is not happening Israel agrees to do the same as to Palestine)


3. Current populations of Jews and other non-Muslims be permitted to remain in any territories ceded by Israel to the new Palestinian State either as resident Aliens or as citizens of the new Palestine (their choice)  with full and equal civil and religious rights. Current populations of  non-Jewish Arabs be permitted to remain in Israel either as resident aliens or as citizens of Israel (their choice) with full and equal civil and religious rights.


4.Israel controls its immigration policies and Palestine controls its immigration policies. (meaning that any Palestinian "refugees" may immigrate to the new Palestinian State assuming that the new Palestinian State allows it, but may not immigrate into Israel)


5. Israel cedes Gaza, area C, and Area B (with swaps) to the new Palestinian State. Area A remains a part of Israel (with possible swaps). 


6. Although this is covered by 5 - Jerusalem remains the undivided capital of Israel. The new Palestinian State may establish its capital anywhere in the territories ceded to it. 


7. Israel agrees to continue to allow full access to all religious sites in areas within Israel. The new Palestine agrees to allow full access to all religious sites in areas within the new Palestine. Both parties agree to maintain the religious sites within their territory in at least as good condition as they are today. 


8. The UN agrees to close all remaining "refugee camps" and all such "refugee camps" wherever located become part of the territory of the new Palestine (which can choose to sell it back to the country in which such camp was formerly located - as a way of receiving reparations from the Arab countries which caused the problem in the first place)


9. The UN pays reparations to all refugees and descendants of refugees (on both sides) - all funds for such reparations to be supplied by the Arab countries.      


10. The UN formally apologizes to Israel for the anti-Israel actions of the UN and apologizes to the Palestinians for keeping them in perpetual "refugee" status and abusing them for the last 65 years. 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2011 - 7:16AM #7
KindredSai
Posts: 5,385

Oct 4, 2011 -- 10:38AM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Susha


OK I will take you up on this.


1. Palestine recognizes Israel as the Jewish State and gives up all claims to any territory within Israel. (and of course Israel recognizes Palestine as the Palestinian state ...)


2. Palestine agrees to cease all incitement against Israel and Jews (and while it is not happening Israel agrees to do the same as to Palestine)


3. Current populations of Jews and other non-Muslims be permitted to remain in any territories ceded by Israel to the new Palestinian State either as resident Aliens or as citizens of the new Palestine (their choice)  with full and equal civil and religious rights. Current populations of  non-Jewish Arabs be permitted to remain in Israel either as resident aliens or as citizens of Israel (their choice) with full and equal civil and religious rights.


4.Israel controls its immigration policies and Palestine controls its immigration policies. (meaning that any Palestinian "refugees" may immigrate to the new Palestinian State assuming that the new Palestinian State allows it, but may not immigrate into Israel)


5. Israel cedes Gaza, area C, and Area B (with swaps) to the new Palestinian State. Area A remains a part of Israel (with possible swaps). 


6. Although this is covered by 5 - Jerusalem remains the undivided capital of Israel. The new Palestinian State may establish its capital anywhere in the territories ceded to it. 


7. Israel agrees to continue to allow full access to all religious sites in areas within Israel. The new Palestine agrees to allow full access to all religious sites in areas within the new Palestine. Both parties agree to maintain the religious sites within their territory in at least as good condition as they are today. 


8. The UN agrees to close all remaining "refugee camps" and all such "refugee camps" wherever located become part of the territory of the new Palestine (which can choose to sell it back to the country in which such camp was formerly located - as a way of receiving reparations from the Arab countries which caused the problem in the first place)


9. The UN pays reparations to all refugees and descendants of refugees (on both sides) - all funds for such reparations to be supplied by the Arab countries.      


10. The UN formally apologizes to Israel for the anti-Israel actions of the UN and apologizes to the Palestinians for keeping them in perpetual "refugee" status and abusing them for the last 65 years. 




 


Typical right wing non-sense.


This is not a peace process but Israel dictating terms.


I am so glad Rocket isn't negotiating, we'd never have peace in the ME.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2011 - 7:48AM #8
JAstor
Posts: 3,957

Oct 3, 2011 -- 9:54PM, Shusha wrote:


JAstor,


How much land?  Which land?  Jerusalem?  Holy sites?


Financial compensation for those claiming right of return?  Or do they return?


Would you name consequences for breach of peace?



Something similar to that which the Israelis offered Arafat and he rejected. 


Not that I agreed with that then, because Arafat did not really want peace. But if a Sadat came along I think that compromise had merit. 


Compensation for those with legitimate claims.


Consequences for breach of peace cannot be external -- or at least primarily external. Israel cannot afford to rely on the kindness of the nations (although it certainly welcomes it and appreciates it). It must be able to protect itself to the best of its ability. 



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3 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2011 - 8:11AM #9
KindredSai
Posts: 5,385

Oct 5, 2011 -- 7:48AM, JAstor wrote:


Oct 3, 2011 -- 9:54PM, Shusha wrote:


JAstor,


How much land?  Which land?  Jerusalem?  Holy sites?


Financial compensation for those claiming right of return?  Or do they return?


Would you name consequences for breach of peace?



Something similar to that which the Israelis offered Arafat and he rejected. 


Not that I agreed with that then, because Arafat did not really want peace. But if a Sadat came along I think that compromise had merit. 


Compensation for those with legitimate claims.


Consequences for breach of peace cannot be external -- or at least primarily external. Israel cannot afford to rely on the kindness of the nations (although it certainly welcomes it and appreciates it). It must be able to protect itself to the best of its ability. 






www.robat.scl.net/content/NAD/negotiatio...


But the common view in the West that Arafat flatly rejected a reasonable peace deal, and that it is thus pointless to attempt a strategy of negotiation, is a myth.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 05, 2011 - 8:27AM #10
habesor
Posts: 5,633

Kindredsai,


I have a few ideas on this subject and I am particularly interested in your response. I don't have enough time to post them now but will in a few hours. I very much doubt that you will find some or all of them acceptable but I would appreciate your comments and criticisms and promise to respond as seriously as I know how.


Habesor

Habesor
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