Oct 7, 2011 -- 11:41AM, lulu2 wrote:

What you are suggesting, is a moral code, that of couse would be contained in Natures God as well as being part of the Universal which for me, is just another way of saying God. Christ however, was in totality, the physical expression of an Ethical Being. Ethics houses much more than just the golden rule. Hence using the term Natures God, would include all virutes housed in such a Being!  TRUTH being His Way and His Light. Which as a Christian means more then just situational ethics or a personal moral code.

Jesus was not the only individual in ancient times to teach worthwhile ethics and morality. One must also include the Egyptian author of Maat, Socrates, Aristotle, Epicurus, Epictetus, Confucius, Lao Tzu, Gautama Buddha, and Hillel the Elder, among others. To tie the founding ethics and morality of the United States strictly to Christianity (or any other specific belief system) belittles our Founding Father's knowledge of both religion and history.

Oct 7, 2011 -- 2:16PM, lulu2 wrote:

"One must also include the Egyptian author of Maat, Socrates, Aristotle, Epicurus, Epictetus, Confucius, Lao Tzu, Gautama Buddha, and Hillel the Elder, among others. To tie the founding ethics and morality of the United States strictly to Christianity (or any other specific belief system) belittles our Founding Father's knowledge of both religion and history."

No, as a Christian, I need not include others who brought humanity to some stage of enlightenment, when I am speaking of the tenant of the founding fathers. Humanities consciousness was impacted most, by the life of Christ. Why? Because, of all the divine representatives ..only the Christ, so perfectly expressed the universal nature of God as Love. He anchored in the human consciousness, the fact of the soul. Which was God Immanet in every human heart. Meaning? Christ is the Universal Soul of mankind. He lives in every heart, as the most perfect example of mans spiritual journey  to his Creator  

It is in Him, that a truly ethical man is born. For He represents a Truth that houses both the Absolute and Eternal. Not morals or values that change or be diluted misundertood, or debated, over time.

It is this, that makes me believe these men, came together at a time, when they would  write the very principles INHERRENT in  the mind and heart of God, or humanities SOUL.

You have every right to be a Christian and believe that Jesus was all you said above, but you are wrong to state that all the Founding Fathers believed the same way. While it's true than many of them were Christians, many were not. Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, James Madison, George Washington, John Adams, James Monroe, and Benjamin Franklin were Unitarians or Deists and did not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Morals and ethics do change over time. Remember, when our founding documents were signed slavery was acceptable and only white male property owners were qualified to vote.

Oct 8, 2011 -- 12:50PM, lulu2 wrote:

Dear Paine,

I never once said all of the founders were Christian..I am aware some were theist and each had their own belief system in which they expressed the same values contained in those words Natures God.

My point was never to say, they were all Christians, nor Jews or Theists. My point was that they believed in a Creator, who ENDOWED them with these TRUTHS, that would be Self evident, in that all men are created equal. Not at all the same! It is also inherrent in our Universal Soul, other truths...which would be valued by all men who believe in  these  principles. 

The difference I believe we have, is that my belief is anchored in a man whose Life, was the Ulitmate expression of all that is eternal in principle... as opposed to the founders, who were enlighted by some of them. They knew what was right and documented it, before they were able to truly live them!

The question posed by the thread topic is, "What are the Christian values America was founded upon?" My point in this discussion is that the those values are universal, not specifically Christian. As I have stated, they are found in almost all human religious and ethical systems. To claim they are specific to only one belief system is, IMO, insulting not only to the majority of people in the world, but also to the Creator.

Oct 10, 2011 -- 3:37PM, snoopygal wrote:

We should make participation in wars illegal, because Jesus said love your enemies!

It appears the poster either doesn't understand our secular democracy - or doesn't 'approve' of it.

We should be legislating NOTHING on the basis of 'Jesus said so' - for 'Jesus' is not the basis of our legal system.