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3 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 5:45PM #11
johndavid23
Posts: 4,324

Yes, the standard operating procedure of the military-industrial complex has been to blow something up and then use the event as an excuse to declare war.  "Remember the Maine." gave us an imperial war which took Cuba and the Phillipines and made them nasty places for quite a while.  The now acknowledged as fake Gulf of Tonkin scam gave us the Vietnam war.  Why wouldn't people question the 9/11 event in light of history?

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 5:52PM #12
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 11,894

John David, sleep is so much more satisfying than questioning reality. It also requires no bravery or fortitude.

The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2011 - 5:56PM #13
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

The societal engineers have done their jobs well in regard to the word "conspiracy," for most "normal" people immediately associate the word "nut" with "conspiracy" as soon as they hear or read the word, then stop thinking at that point, which is exactly what the PtB hoped and planned for.


In reality, there are only two viable theories to (human)history:


A.  Things happen by accident.


B.  Things happen on purpose.


By definition, any time two or more people plan for something bad to happen to a third individual(or group thereof, small or large), in secret, it IS A CONSPIRACY!


Therefore the PtB have a vested interest in doing everything possible to discourage the revealing of actual facts concerning presidential and other national leader assassinations, just as they have the facts surrounding the sinking of the Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, the now well-known fact that Japanese codes---both military AND diplomatic---were cracked at LEAST 3 months prior to Pearl(ergo not a "surprise attack" to HIM), the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" which led to direct military involvement in Vietnam, and fairly recently, the "attack" on 9/11 which just HAPPENED to mirror the PNAC Neocon crowd's desire for a "New Pearl Harbor."


Despite what many would have you believe, there has been and continues to be an unholy alliance between Banksters, Corporations that supply war materiel, and Government, to start wars and continue them, as "war is good for business" and just happens to coincide with the well-known principle that during "wartime," the People are more compliant insofar as the exercise of their Rights, which then get "legally" stripped FROM them, ergo USA PATRIOT acts and similar Military Commisssions Act, Warner Defense Authorization bill, and so on, many of which have Unconstitutional provisions within them which are then codified into "law," as well as vague clauses like "and for other purposes" which are ALSO patently Unconstitutional, as a law---to be valid---MUST be SPECIFIC...or at least, that's what it USED to be: "void for vagueness" was, once upon a time, a perfect defense to many of these so-called "laws."


At a certain point in time, certain evil people realized that the really BIG money only comes rolling in when people die in large numbers, hence deaths-head cults like the Skull and Bones, and others less-well-publicized.


Hell, even the character Frank Burns realized the financial windfalls that ensue, when during one episode of M.A.S.H., he exclaimed that "Everyone knows that stocks go up during wartime."


George C. Scott, in "Patton," exclaimed about the Soviets, "Give me a week and i'll have us a war with them sons-a-bitches, and make it look like it was their fault!", the same or similar tactics to the one the Nazi's used when they wanted to make it look like the Poles had attacked THEM prior to the Blitzkreig.  Does anyone REALLY believe that the "War on Terra"(which is what it REALLY is, a war against the People AND the earth itself) "just happened by accident"? 


Just after WW2, a former head of GE, then head of some high government position said that since there was such a revulsion against war, the USG must set itself on a course of establishing a PERMANENT WARTIME ECONOMY.  Anyone think that this can be done by any OTHER means than conspiracy?  (used to have the exact citation, now possibly unretrievable from my old hard drive, can probably be re-located with a google of "permanent wartime economy" to find out who said it, and have a clue-by-four as to who his allies were.)


A perusal of G. Edward Griffin's essay "The Grand Deception: A Second Look at the War on Terror" would reveal that the "Carnegie Endowment for PEACE" was actually a front for starting WAR(several of them), as revealed by the investigations of Norman Dodd, who was allowed access to all the minutes of all their meetings by a relatively-youthful new head thereof...and this is all-too-typical of them; they perversely name things that DO the exact opposite of what the name implies, e.g. a "protect the forests" act during the Bushreich that allowed clearcutting again, and a PATRIOT act that strips the very Rights that patriots FIGHT FOR, and so on and so on, and so on.


Butchano, it's just easier not to THINK about things like that, ergo "conspiracy nuts."  Quite a few prefer not to think, anyhow, so any excuse will do...


With goodwill to all the People-


Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2011 - 3:54AM #14
Merope
Posts: 10,196

This thread was moved from US News & Politics.


 

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
Problems? Send a message to Beliefnet_community
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2011 - 1:50PM #15
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Sep 8, 2011 -- 5:56PM, Hatman wrote:


The societal engineers have done their jobs well in regard to the word "conspiracy," for most "normal" people immediately associate the word "nut" with "conspiracy" as soon as they hear or read the word, then stop thinking at that point, which is exactly what the PtB hoped and planned for.


In reality, there are only two viable theories to (human)history:


A.  Things happen by accident.


B.  Things happen on purpose.


By definition, any time two or more people plan for something bad to happen to a third individual(or group thereof, small or large), in secret, it IS A CONSPIRACY!


Therefore the PtB have a vested interest in doing everything possible to discourage the revealing of actual facts concerning presidential and other national leader assassinations, just as they have the facts surrounding the sinking of the Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, the now well-known fact that Japanese codes---both military AND diplomatic---were cracked at LEAST 3 months prior to Pearl(ergo not a "surprise attack" to HIM), the Gulf of Tonkin "incident" which led to direct military involvement in Vietnam, and fairly recently, the "attack" on 9/11 which just HAPPENED to mirror the PNAC Neocon crowd's desire for a "New Pearl Harbor."


Despite what many would have you believe, there has been and continues to be an unholy alliance between Banksters, Corporations that supply war materiel, and Government, to start wars and continue them, as "war is good for business" and just happens to coincide with the well-known principle that during "wartime," the People are more compliant insofar as the exercise of their Rights, which then get "legally" stripped FROM them, ergo USA PATRIOT acts and similar Military Commisssions Act, Warner Defense Authorization bill, and so on, many of which have Unconstitutional provisions within them which are then codified into "law," as well as vague clauses like "and for other purposes" which are ALSO patently Unconstitutional, as a law---to be valid---MUST be SPECIFIC...or at least, that's what it USED to be: "void for vagueness" was, once upon a time, a perfect defense to many of these so-called "laws."


At a certain point in time, certain evil people realized that the really BIG money only comes rolling in when people die in large numbers, hence deaths-head cults like the Skull and Bones, and others less-well-publicized.


Hell, even the character Frank Burns realized the financial windfalls that ensue, when during one episode of M.A.S.H., he exclaimed that "Everyone knows that stocks go up during wartime."


George C. Scott, in "Patton," exclaimed about the Soviets, "Give me a week and i'll have us a war with them sons-a-bitches, and make it look like it was their fault!", the same or similar tactics to the one the Nazi's used when they wanted to make it look like the Poles had attacked THEM prior to the Blitzkreig.  Does anyone REALLY believe that the "War on Terra"(which is what it REALLY is, a war against the People AND the earth itself) "just happened by accident"? 


Just after WW2, a former head of GE, then head of some high government position said that since there was such a revulsion against war, the USG must set itself on a course of establishing a PERMANENT WARTIME ECONOMY.  Anyone think that this can be done by any OTHER means than conspiracy?  (used to have the exact citation, now possibly unretrievable from my old hard drive, can probably be re-located with a google of "permanent wartime economy" to find out who said it, and have a clue-by-four as to who his allies were.)


A perusal of G. Edward Griffin's essay "The Grand Deception: A Second Look at the War on Terror" would reveal that the "Carnegie Endowment for PEACE" was actually a front for starting WAR(several of them), as revealed by the investigations of Norman Dodd, who was allowed access to all the minutes of all their meetings by a relatively-youthful new head thereof...and this is all-too-typical of them; they perversely name things that DO the exact opposite of what the name implies, e.g. a "protect the forests" act during the Bushreich that allowed clearcutting again, and a PATRIOT act that strips the very Rights that patriots FIGHT FOR, and so on and so on, and so on.


Butchano, it's just easier not to THINK about things like that, ergo "conspiracy nuts."  Quite a few prefer not to think, anyhow, so any excuse will do...


With goodwill to all the People-


Hatman





The fact that TWO jets were used to destroy the WTC proves a conspiracy beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt. It is further proved by a third jet damaging the Pentagon. I am asking if the Gov't being caught flat footed is also a conspiracy.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2011 - 1:56PM #16
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Sep 8, 2011 -- 5:52PM, Father_Oblivion wrote:


John David, sleep is so much more satisfying than questioning reality. It also requires no bravery or fortitude.





FO,


I am asking why the Gov't is continually being caught with their pants down when we surely must have the intellegence to alert us that something is going down. We have headed off a major terror attack set for the time of the Millenial celebrations. We are already geared up to deal with espionage and sabotage, terrorism is a form of sabotage.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2011 - 8:09AM #17
JRT
Posts: 340

 


Over the last little while I have been pondering a phenomenon that has been going on most of my life. At first I thought that it was a relatively modern thing but it actually has been going on for a very long time. I am referring to the Deniers and Conspiracy Theorists. While they might seem to be different behaviours, I think they have a commonality in the sort of mind that subscribes to them. What also struck me as curious is the number of them that are centered around science, technology and medicine. Let me list a few.


 >> the link between tobacco and cancer, particularly lung cancer


 >> the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay


 >> the role of chlorofluorinated hydrocarbons in the deterioration of the ozone layer


 >> the build up of DDT in the food chain and its effect on both human health and reproduction success in birds


 >> the link between HIV and AIDS


 >> the role of vaccination in causing other health issues


 >> the historicity of the moon landings


 >> the human role in CO2 production and climate change


 This is hardly an exhaustive list and it is easy to also point out others that have very little, if any, linkage to science, technology or medicine. For example, the historicity of the Holocaust and of 9/11 and also the events surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy.


 What most puzzles me most is the state of mind of both those who advocate these theories and those who so readily subscribe to them. I will throw out a few random thoughts here in the hope that they will generate some discussion.


 >> fear and powerlessness --- people feel overwhelmed by events that are beyond their control and require a scapegoat on which to pin their frustration and their anger.


 >> fear and ignorance --- people are frightened by their own lack of understanding of the concepts and issues involved and suggest that 'the intellectuals' are trying to put one over on them.


 >> the 'little guy syndrome' --- people fear big organizations, big government in particualar, and feel the need to lash out at them by suggesting that the little guy is being somehow exploited.


 >> religion and political ideologies --- in at least a few cases the culprit is viewed as challenging religious and/or political beliefs.


 To illustrate this last point we could look at two examples.


 Political --- the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay was opposed as a tactic by communists to poison the whole nation. This was particularly effective in the days of the 'red menace' but has a modern counterpart in the paranoia surrounding international terrorism.


 Religious --- new technologies are viewed as challenging religious understandings. This goes back a long way in history. Two hundred years ago Timothy Dwight, Presbyterian minister and president of Yale University wrote “If God had decreed from all eternity that a certain person should die of smallpox, it would be a frightful sin to avoid and annul that decree by the trick of vaccination.” Today we see an echo of that religious fear in the debate surrounding stem cell research.


 The final observation is that it seems to me that deniers, conspiracy theorists, and biblical creationists are often the same people. What think you?

the floggings will continue until morale improves
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2011 - 10:26PM #18
rangerken
Posts: 16,408


This post was moved from US News & Politics. It definitely belongs on this Conspiracy Theories forum.


Rangerken







Hatman



Posts: 7,839








www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98&feat...




With goodwill to all the People-




Hatman



 

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 11, 2011 - 11:23PM #19
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Sep 10, 2011 -- 8:09AM, JRT wrote:


 


Over the last little while I have been pondering a phenomenon that has been going on most of my life. At first I thought that it was a relatively modern thing but it actually has been going on for a very long time. I am referring to the Deniers and Conspiracy Theorists. While they might seem to be different behaviours, I think they have a commonality in the sort of mind that subscribes to them. What also struck me as curious is the number of them that are centered around science, technology and medicine. Let me list a few.


 >> the link between tobacco and cancer, particularly lung cancer


 >> the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay


 >> the role of chlorofluorinated hydrocarbons in the deterioration of the ozone layer


 >> the build up of DDT in the food chain and its effect on both human health and reproduction success in birds


 >> the link between HIV and AIDS


 >> the role of vaccination in causing other health issues


 >> the historicity of the moon landings


 >> the human role in CO2 production and climate change


 This is hardly an exhaustive list and it is easy to also point out others that have very little, if any, linkage to science, technology or medicine. For example, the historicity of the Holocaust and of 9/11 and also the events surrounding the assassination of President Kennedy.


 What most puzzles me most is the state of mind of both those who advocate these theories and those who so readily subscribe to them. I will throw out a few random thoughts here in the hope that they will generate some discussion.


 >> fear and powerlessness --- people feel overwhelmed by events that are beyond their control and require a scapegoat on which to pin their frustration and their anger.


 >> fear and ignorance --- people are frightened by their own lack of understanding of the concepts and issues involved and suggest that 'the intellectuals' are trying to put one over on them.


 >> the 'little guy syndrome' --- people fear big organizations, big government in particualar, and feel the need to lash out at them by suggesting that the little guy is being somehow exploited.


 >> religion and political ideologies --- in at least a few cases the culprit is viewed as challenging religious and/or political beliefs.


 To illustrate this last point we could look at two examples.


 Political --- the fluoridation of water supplies to prevent tooth decay was opposed as a tactic by communists to poison the whole nation. This was particularly effective in the days of the 'red menace' but has a modern counterpart in the paranoia surrounding international terrorism.


 Religious --- new technologies are viewed as challenging religious understandings. This goes back a long way in history. Two hundred years ago Timothy Dwight, Presbyterian minister and president of Yale University wrote “If God had decreed from all eternity that a certain person should die of smallpox, it would be a frightful sin to avoid and annul that decree by the trick of vaccination.” Today we see an echo of that religious fear in the debate surrounding stem cell research.


 The final observation is that it seems to me that deniers, conspiracy theorists, and biblical creationists are often the same people. What think you?




JRT,
Given that our country has the best intellegence network in the world, how is it that our Government keeps getting caught with their pants down?

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 7:05PM #20
Hatman
Posts: 9,634

Fluoride is a known carcinogen, and has multiple deleterious effects upon the human body.  A legion of scientists have researched the point and come to the same conclusion; i even remember hearing about it on CCMSM, yet local/state/federal gov't's keep introducing this roach, rat, and retiree killer into the public water supply with impunity.


Another possibility that you seem to have dismissed/glossed over in your apparent desire to minimize or marginalize ideas of this nature is simple truth.


Guess what?  Smoking tobacco(especially the "enhanced to improve addictive capacity" type)DOES cause cancer!  This simple truth was denied for at least a hundred years or more.


Repeated ingestion of toxic substances into the human body DOES cause toxicity(natch!) and a great multiplicity of human diseases/disorders.


The wealthy who love power over lives DO start and continue wars, as it is in their financial interest to do so...they have for centuries.  They also do their worst to increase dependence and decrease INdependence by every means possible, including-but-not-limited to suppressing alternative energy devices(see www.peswiki.com for a partial list). 


With goodwill to all the People-


Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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