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Switch to Forum Live View Where Are the 9/11 threads?
3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:34PM #31
Druac
Posts: 12,104

Sep 7, 2011 -- 12:27PM, nnsecu wrote:


On this 9/11 most of the country will be shoveling chips, pizza, or chicken wings down there throat chasing it with massive amounts of alcohol.  Screaming hit him, catch it, run, and touchdown.  The country will pause for a moment of silence then quickly get back into football mode. 


 





+1! My Plans Exactly!

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:37PM #32
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Sep 7, 2011 -- 3:20PM, Wanderingal wrote:


One of the Witnesses I worked with has come to mind. I won't give any phsyical details but she worked at a 24 hour drive thru fast food place and saw the customer in the car by her window shot through the head and killed.


I did one of the first follow ups a week later--we do a number of follow ups--as many as the client wants--and one of the things that was bothering her a lot(you let the client say what might be bothering/upsetting them rather than suggesting to them what might be/not be "Appropriate" to be bothering them after the event)--


She said that many people kept telling her they did not understand why she wass so upset by what had happened--that it wasn't anyone she knew and it hadn't even happened to her.


That is the kind of thin gthat goes along with being told "You're not really affected by what you witnessed so get on with your life."


Luckily her boss was much more understanding and was giving her time off with pay if that was what she needed--and allowing her to work in the kitchen--instead of the window when she came to work.


We talked to all he people who worked there. They all were affected by what had happened in a place that they considered to be "their territory" and that they had thought they "knew" all about.


We did many follow ups with her and a year later she was still having dreams about the event--very graphic ones--but she said that knowing she could talk with us and that we didn't judge or criticize her (as her family was doing) or tell her she "should just move on" was very helpful and she felt less alone and more in control because of that.


 




Seriously, there is a huge difference between watching someone several feet from you getting shot and watching on television the events of 9/11 from the comfort of one's office or home hundreds and thousands of miles away. I would never claim that what I experienced watching the events of 9/11 from my office in Indianapolis is anywhere near the same trauma level as someone who was actually there watching them.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:41PM #33
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,714

I was wondering whether anyone recalls how 9/11 increased the strength of anti-Muslim, American-born Knownothings, e.g. Ms Palin saying, near the 9/11 site of the future Islamic Community Centre that "Muslims can't be good, Christian 'mericans like me."  etc.  -- That kind of Fascism with a religious bent scares the cr*p out of me, and also for fellow Americans, Muslims, who must, in some future PalinoRepublic, be forced into ghettos and herded West for "resettlement."

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:41PM #34
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Sep 7, 2011 -- 3:34PM, Druac wrote:


Sep 7, 2011 -- 12:27PM, nnsecu wrote:


On this 9/11 most of the country will be shoveling chips, pizza, or chicken wings down there throat chasing it with massive amounts of alcohol.  Screaming hit him, catch it, run, and touchdown.  The country will pause for a moment of silence then quickly get back into football mode. 


 





+1! My Plans Exactly!





This is valid. The anniversary does fall on Football Sunday. I'm sure the games will have their moments of silence. Peyton Manning likely won't play this Sunday so I may not waste the time watching the Colts lose. ;-)

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:45PM #35
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,714

Just came from a briefing, where soldiers were told to be extra careful on 9/11, given the Wingnuto who wasted four Guardsmen in Carson City, Nev., and the significance of the approaching date itself.

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:46PM #36
catboxer
Posts: 14,012

Here in Rome, everything else stops for the chariot races.


We'll remember our heroes who fell at Cannae at a more convenient time.

Adepto vestri stercore simul.ttr
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 3:53PM #37
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

Sep 7, 2011 -- 3:37PM, Girlchristian wrote:


Sep 7, 2011 -- 3:20PM, Wanderingal wrote:


One of the Witnesses I worked with has come to mind. I won't give any phsyical details but she worked at a 24 hour drive thru fast food place and saw the customer in the car by her window shot through the head and killed.


I did one of the first follow ups a week later--we do a number of follow ups--as many as the client wants--and one of the things that was bothering her a lot(you let the client say what might be bothering/upsetting them rather than suggesting to them what might be/not be "Appropriate" to be bothering them after the event)--


She said that many people kept telling her they did not understand why she wass so upset by what had happened--that it wasn't anyone she knew and it hadn't even happened to her.


That is the kind of thin gthat goes along with being told "You're not really affected by what you witnessed so get on with your life."


Luckily her boss was much more understanding and was giving her time off with pay if that was what she needed--and allowing her to work in the kitchen--instead of the window when she came to work.


We talked to all he people who worked there. They all were affected by what had happened in a place that they considered to be "their territory" and that they had thought they "knew" all about.


We did many follow ups with her and a year later she was still having dreams about the event--very graphic ones--but she said that knowing she could talk with us and that we didn't judge or criticize her (as her family was doing) or tell her she "should just move on" was very helpful and she felt less alone and more in control because of that.


 




Seriously, there is a huge difference between watching someone several feet from you getting shot and watching on television the events of 9/11 from the comfort of one's office or home hundreds and thousands of miles away.


 I would never claim that what I experienced watching the events of 9/11 from my office in Indianapolis is anywhere near the same trauma level as someone who was actually there watching them.





Seriously--when one studies PTSD and other effects on Witnesses and Victims and works with them one learns that there is almost NO difference. Just as there is no "one right way" to react or to recover.


That is what Victim/Witness Advocacy is all about.


Many Victim/Witness Advocancy programs all over the country were incredibly busy in the aftermath of 9/11.


I can post some sources/references for info on Victimology if anyone is interested.


BTW--your reaction is very typical--people go by their own experiences and assume that those must be the "correct" and/or only responses to traumatic events.


So--what you say about "I would never claim" is a normal thought for someone who has not had such an experience or has not worked with people who have.


Not trying to be snarky or insulting--just reporting what is so very common in this country in terms of our reactions to the traumatic events that others experience.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 4:04PM #38
mecdukebec
Posts: 14,714

I guess that the suggestion that all one has to do, to overcome trauma, is just "Stiff upper lip, old man; drive on, and all that."  really does not take into consideration the significance of the helplessness that someone feels who experiences the trauma.  Myself,  I have known folks who direct drones on to targets, from a videocamera, and to suggest, somehow, that it's not PTSD or symptomatic of that, seems rather grossly ignorant.  -- Let's just put it this way:  If you have carried young privates to a CSH and you know that they are going to die, and your suggestion is "Stiff upper lip, old man; everything comes down right as rain!"  Does one belief that he or she has helped that individual, or come off as an oaf?  -

*******

"Wesley told the early Methodists to gain all they could and save all they could so that they could give all they could. It means that I consider my money to belong to God and I see myself as one of the hungry people who needs to get fed with God’s money. If I really have put all my trust in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord, then nothing I have is really my own anymore."
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 4:09PM #39
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,384

Here's an interesting video of the kids and teacher that were in the classroom when Bush found out: news.yahoo.com/video-kids-in-9-11-classr....


When the students are asked why they think Bush stayed one of the girls said that if he wanted the country to stay calm, then he had to stay calm and not rush out.


An interview with one of the kids, is linked in the article. Here's what he says about that moment:


The man, Chief of Staff Andrew Card, bent over to whisper in the president's ear. Of course, little Lazaro had no idea who or what a chief of staff was. He just watched the president start to look around the room, at the lights and cameras in the back. "He seemed completely disconnected from what was going on in the classroom," Lazaro recalls now. "He was not focused at all."

Then President Bush left for a little while and came back. He handed out some M&M candy to everyone and said goodbye. "I had no idea what was going on," Lazaro says now. "I figured there was political stuff going on." It was only later that Mrs. Daniels pushed a television into the classroom and turned it on. The children saw the pictures of two buildings on fire. "I thought we were watching an action movie," Lazaro says. Mrs. Daniels tried to explain that terrorists had stolen some planes.

Lazaro Dubrocq thinks about 9/11 every time he opens the refrigerator. Sitting there in the door is the little box of M&Ms he got from the president. It's the only memento he has from that day, so he protects that candy as if it was an American flag. He wants to see that little box. He wants to remember.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” Stuart Chase
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3 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 4:23PM #40
Wanderingal
Posts: 5,504

Mecduc--Thanks so much for your recounting of the experiences of the people you work with on a daily basis


One of the post 9/11 Witnesses I worked with was standing outdoors a year after 9/11 and an airplane flew low over him and he had an intense flashback.


On 9/11 itself he was living in Colorado....and nowhere near NYC.


The low-flying plane re-started his nightmares which had until then begun to diminish after working with Victim/Witness Advocates.


He was fortunate in that when the flashback occurred he was with someone who understood what was happening and who did not just keep admionishing him to "stop having flashbacks and to move on with his life because he hadn't been in NYC himself on that day."

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