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Switch to Forum Live View Norway Terrorist Had Pro-Israeli Views
3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 5:28PM #21
ffb
Posts: 2,128

Jul 25, 2011 -- 5:24PM, KindredSai wrote:


Jul 25, 2011 -- 5:11PM, ffb wrote:


Jul 25, 2011 -- 2:46PM, KindredSai wrote:

www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx...

Is this the start of Zionist terrorism in Europe?

European Right wing parties supporting the State of Israel isn't a new phenonmenon.




probably the funniest post I have seen in a while.


The article (fromthe jpost, so it focuses on the presence of Israel and Zionism in the document) also says that the author expressed "sympathy for the people of Serbia". Are you going to post a statement expressing wonder whether this signals the start of Serbian terrorism in Norway?


Why do you jump to the conclusion that a madman's personal affinity for Israel means that there is instutionalized violence being suborned by Israel? That's a level of hysteria which brings a smile to my lips.




FFB,


You simply haven't read the manifesto of the killer, he cites Israel and Palestine as a central platform along with his anti-Islamic stance.


In Europe now, many of us are wondering if we have downplayed the threat of the right wing.


It's not hysteria, nor do I think it's an isolated incident.




I do think that it is an isolated incident. Maybe not one that will be the only of its kind, but the type that is separate from any official position, wish or sanction by the ideological center the terrorist himself admires. I didn't think that the american terrorists who bombed OK city were harbingers of official Christian terrorism. Did you?

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 5:38PM #22
KindredSai
Posts: 5,385

I do think that it is an isolated incident. Maybe not one that will be the only of its kind, but the type that is separate from any official position, wish or sanction by the ideological center the terrorist himself admires. I didn't think that the american terrorists who bombed OK city were harbingers of official Christian terrorism. Did you?


America is a different kettle of fish, Christian extremism in the US is not a great threat politically as the right wing in Europe. In Europe right wing parties with an anti-Islamic agenda are making ground like in Israel, they are growing with popularity.


in the 1980s Norway was subject to isolated incidents. There is a rise of an anti-Islamic movement, there is no doubt about that.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 7:29PM #23
LeahOne
Posts: 16,132

Jul 25, 2011 -- 3:54PM, KindredSai wrote:


Jul 25, 2011 -- 3:20PM, LeahOne wrote:


One needn't admire Zionism to hate Muslims.  In fact, there's no real reason to connect the two.  Zionism is about Jews living as Jews:  it's not avowedly or inherently 'anti' anyone else.


Zionism is no more the 'reason' for some to decide to hate Muslims any more than Naziism is the 'reason' for some to repeat Big Lies about Jews....


That degree of extremism, the killing hate, is its own insanity, whether 'left' or 'right'.




Zionism is evidently through the standpoint of it's victims is anti-Muslim because it's approaches in the past and in the present have been directed at Muslims.


Zionism is not a religion were there is moderate forms, it is an ideology like Islamism which calls for supremacy.





All I can tell you, KSai, is that you think you know Zionism more and better than I who've lived with it for over 50 years.   In all that time, there's never been any 'supremacy' mentioned by any of my teachers or mentors - nor has such been evident in the Zionist organization of which I'm a life member (Hadassah).


Given the unlikilihood of a person being more expert than such long-term participants (I've held office, yes) - I can only conclude, KS, that your views on Zionism owe more to your own ideology than to actual knowledge of Zionism.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 7:45PM #24
ffb
Posts: 2,128

Jul 25, 2011 -- 5:38PM, KindredSai wrote:

I do think that it is an isolated incident. Maybe not one that will be the only of its kind, but the type that is separate from any official position, wish or sanction by the ideological center the terrorist himself admires. I didn't think that the american terrorists who bombed OK city were harbingers of official Christian terrorism. Did you?


America is a different kettle of fish, Christian extremism in the US is not a great threat politically as the right wing in Europe. In Europe right wing parties with an anti-Islamic agenda are making ground like in Israel, they are growing with popularity.


in the 1980s Norway was subject to isolated incidents. There is a rise of an anti-Islamic movement, there is no doubt about that.


 


yes, everything is always different. if you want to see a burgeoning anti-muslim movement, that's fine. you tie it automatically with zionism because a person who espoused one admired the other. that's fine. you don't want to tie it to an anti-marxist movement even though the terrorist in question admired that point of view as well. you find what you are looking for.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 7:54PM #25
LeahOne
Posts: 16,132

Jul 25, 2011 -- 4:01PM, KindredSai wrote:


Jul 25, 2011 -- 3:54PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


So where in Europe are you pretending to live these days?


 




I have always stated that I am European, I am British.


It's probably why I write better English than you.






"Zionism is not a religion were there is moderate forms, it is an ideology like Islamism which calls for supremacy."


Then I suppose you'll be explaining to me that the three grammatical errors I see in your sentence above are really my lack of understanding English grammar....


Meanwhile, addressing the *logic* error of that pronouncement from the more-expert-than-anyone-else-here KSai:


It is news to me that people espouse an 'ideology' in an 'on/off' fashion:  my 50+ years of observing is that once we're out of the grade school that tends to be an analog function.  And again, UNlike Islamism, Zionism does NOT have that 'supremacy' aspect - because the Judaism from which it comes does not espouse that 'supremacy'.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 8:33PM #26
ffb
Posts: 2,128

I missed it -- was there a claim that there is no moderate form of Zionism? That it unequivocally calls for supremacy? Fascinating. I've been a Zionist for my whole life and that's precisely the opposite of what I have been taught and the life that my community has led. But I guess others know better.

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3 years ago  ::  Jul 25, 2011 - 8:58PM #27
rangerken
Posts: 16,407

This thread was moved from Middle East News & Politics.


 

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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3 years ago  ::  Jul 26, 2011 - 4:10AM #28
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 12,232

This Is not the work of a lone madman, but a symptom of a political disease!

European right-populist parties increasingly have been waving the flag of friendship with Israel, as well as expressing vehement opposition to Europe’s multicultural society.


Last month, after it emerged that German-Swedish far-right politician Patrik Brinkmann had met in Berlin with Israeli Likud Party lawmaker Ayoub Kara, who is deputy minister for development of the Negev and Galilee, Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman wrote to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu demanding that Kara be prevented from making further trips abroad. According to Ynet, Lieberman accused Kara of meeting with neo-Nazis and causing damage to Israel’s image. Brinkman said he had reached out to Israeli rightists hoping to build a coalition against Islam.


www.jewishnews.net.au/norway-killer-espo...

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 14, 2011 - 6:08AM #29
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,210

Jul 25, 2011 -- 8:33PM, ffb wrote:


I missed it -- was there a claim that there is no moderate form of Zionism? That it unequivocally calls for supremacy? Fascinating. I've been a Zionist for my whole life and that's precisely the opposite of what I have been taught and the life that my community has led. But I guess others know better.



This reminds me of a friend whose husband joined Masonic Lodge. Apparently there are 33 degrees. There are specific initiation rites for each level. Level 1 does not know what level 2 requires etc. I am a member of a political party but I have found out there are wheels within wheels within wheels...

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