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3 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2011 - 4:23PM #11
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,021

Or how about a Scientologist 'prayer'? A Taoist one? A Bhuddist one? A Rastafarian one? A Christian Scientist one? Et cetera.


Nope, in Amurika, it's gottta be ALL Jesus, all the time or yer out.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 1:37AM #12
Vistronic
Posts: 1,830

Jun 5, 2011 -- 6:36PM, amcolph wrote:


Jun 4, 2011 -- 11:38PM, Vistronic wrote:


"The First Amendment prohibits governments from interfering with Americans' rights to freely express their religious beliefs, and accordingly the U.S. Supreme Court has maintained that Congress may convene every day with a prayer," Perry said in a statement.


 


So congress can but school can not....?





Congress can do many things that school cannot.  All Congressmen are are adults who are vountarily present.


But let me ask you this:


Would a Moslem valedictorian be allowed to introduce an Islamic prayer into his or her remarks at that school?


Would that right be extended to a Mormon?  A Catholic?  A Jew?


Knowing what I do about that part of Texas, I seriously doubt it.


What do you think? 





Speculation. I do not think Islam would be tolerated, because some use it as excuse to commit terror.. at least that is how it is viewed by many... 15 years ago not as big a problem but now? Look they have equal rights but who wants someone killing them? I see the others allowed except maybe wicca. It gets a bad rap.


We all know Christianity is what we are talking about the defacto state religion.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 8:58AM #13
amcolph
Posts: 17,692

Jun 7, 2011 -- 1:37AM, Vistronic wrote:


 


We all know Christianity is what we are talking about the defacto state religion.




What we are talking about is whether Christianity is the defacto state religion.


The answer to that is no.


We live in a secular republic and there is no state relgion, de facto or de jure.


I understand that you live in the Bible Belt where almost everyone around you seems to be an Evangelical Protestant of some kind or another, and you want to think that the whole country is the same.


It isn't, and the other religious groups which you tolerate as minorities(often with very bad grace--I know, I've lived there) are majorities elsewhere.


Evangelical Protestantism has no "edge," no special status in this country.  It does not represent a "generic" form of Christianity which should somehow be acceptable to everyone as a civil religion.


It is just one more religious group in a religiously diverse society.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 10:47AM #14
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

evidently, since they only seem to sue when people pray "in Jesus' name" -there may be a generic State religion


Dallas City Council had had sessions opened in prayer by both muslims and wiccans


 


I am unclear how this case was distinguished from the previous Texas case which banned student lead invocations at football games

Non Quis, Sed Quid
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 11:33AM #15
amcolph
Posts: 17,692

As I remember, the key elements in the football game case were that the student prayer leader (and thus, the religious content of the prayer) was selected in a student body election sponsered by the school, and that the prayer was delivered over a PA system owned by the school.


The problem is that Fundamentalists see themselves as sole legitimate heirs of whatever civil religion there may have been or they imagine there was.  Consequently, those who resist Fundamentalist prayer are not only not 'real' Christians, they're not even real Americans.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 12:10PM #16
davelaw40
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and I would argue that whatever forces that want to allow religious expression in Public forums but keep it inoffensive create a defacto civil religion

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 12:12PM #17
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

Jun 7, 2011 -- 11:33AM, amcolph wrote:


As I remember, the key elements in the football game case were that the student prayer leader (and thus, the religious content of the prayer) was selected in a student body election sponsered by the school, and that the prayer was delivered over a PA system owned by the school.


 




that same school system now has a moment of silence at football games while two sax players play Amazing Grace

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 12:18PM #18
amcolph
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Jun 7, 2011 -- 12:10PM, davelaw40 wrote:


and I would argue that whatever forces that want to allow religious expression in Public forums but keep it inoffensive create a defacto civil religion




Either that, or we can view it as allowing personal religious expression in public forums.


That may be the difference between the two cases that we are discussing.

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 12:21PM #19
davelaw40
Posts: 19,669

there is certainly a dynamic between State Action and the right of self expression

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2011 - 2:21PM #20
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,021

Jun 7, 2011 -- 11:33AM, amcolph wrote:


As I remember, the key elements in the football game case were that the student prayer leader (and thus, the religious content of the prayer) was selected in a student body election sponsered by the school, and that the prayer was delivered over a PA system owned by the school.


The problem is that Fundamentalists see themselves as sole legitimate heirs of whatever civil religion there may have been or they imagine there was.  Consequently, those who resist Fundamentalist prayer are not only not 'real' Christians, they're not even real Americans.





If BOTH teams pray for victory, does the losing team ipso facto worship a false god?

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