Post Reply
Page 1 of 7  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Creation and Bible in the School.
4 years ago  ::  May 31, 2011 - 2:09AM #1
Vistronic
Posts: 1,832
Creation by God should be taught as a option to secular origin of life.
In addtion The Bible in western history and us history should be taught.
I see no establishment of religion stating the above.

Allow the schools the freedom, no fed thought police needed or wanted.

Vis. 
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 31, 2011 - 8:12AM #2
amcolph
Posts: 18,272

May 31, 2011 -- 2:09AM, Vistronic wrote:

Creation by God should be taught as a option to secular origin of life.



Neither one should be taught in science class.   Science is neutral as to the existence of God and so is any well-conducted science class--and it should stay that way.


Of course, the "Bible-believing" Christians don't recognize that neutrality.  They think that anything other than Biblical creationism is "secular."


 


 


In addtion The Bible in western history and us history should be taught.
I see no establishment of religion stating the above.



Good idea.  The only people standing in the way of it are the "Bible-believing" Christians, who don't want anything but their own Bible doctrine taught.


 




This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 31, 2011 - 10:10PM #3
MysticWanderer
Posts: 1,328

Creation by God or gods/godesses is a perfectly acceptable teaching in a class on sociology, religion, mythology, cultural history etc, but not in a science class.  There is simply not one iota of evidence that supports the concept of a special divine origin for life.  In fact, no such concept can exist in science since all scientific hypotheses must be able to be proven false and a supernatural being outside of natural laws CANNOT be proven false.  What we should teach in a science class is the best available explanations we have for the phenomena that we observe.


As far as the Bible in world and US history, you are right it should be taught but you won't like it.  Shall we teach the role of the Bible in anti-Semitism in Europe or in the Spainish Inquisition.  Perhaps you would prefer the use of the role of the Bible in the justification for slavery in the US or Manifest Destiny?  Vis, the Bible has been used for much good hiustory but it has also been used for much evil.  Most of those who so loudly scream for education in the Bible, acutally mean their version.

"Not all who wander are lost" J.R.R.Tolkein
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. ~Anne Lamott
"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
Friedrich von Schiller
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 31, 2011 - 11:23PM #4
Vistronic
Posts: 1,832

What is everyone paranoid and afraid of?


Christians are not terrorists.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2011 - 7:08AM #5
costrel
Posts: 6,226

May 31, 2011 -- 11:23PM, Vistronic wrote:


What is everyone paranoid and afraid of?


Christians are not terrorists.



We're not afraid or paranoid of anything. We just know the difference between science, theology, and mythology. Public high schools already teach Native American origin myths in American Literature class, and oftentimes teach Greek origin myths in the Greek mythology unit in 9th or 10th Grade World Literature. Would you be pleased if English teachers taught a unit on Hebrew mythology? The first three chapters of Genesis would certainly be covered, and students would get the benefit of comparing the themes, dramatis personae, and plot of the first chapters of Genesis with other myths and oral literature such as folk tales, fables, and fairy tales. They would even be able to chart the plot structure of the first few chapters of Genesis according to Freytag's Pyramid and compare it to, for instance, the plot structure of one of Shakespeare's plays or to a Greek myth such as that of "Baucis and Philemon" or "Perseus and Andromeda." I actually think that would be very beneficial for students -- at least then they hopefully wouldn't confuse creationism and origin myths with science and scientific theory.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 01, 2011 - 8:23AM #6
amcolph
Posts: 18,272

May 31, 2011 -- 11:23PM, Vistronic wrote:


What is everyone paranoid and afraid of?



Nothing.


Science class is no place to teach theology.  It is definitely no place to teach the theology of one particular Protestant sect to the exclusion of all other theologies.


Christians are not terrorists.




No, but "Bible-believing" Christians are a pain it the butt.


Science is neutral with respect to the existence of God.  It's not the business of a science teacher to teach the students there is a God, it's not the business of a science teacher to teach the students there isn't a God.


Why can't you leave it like that?  Why should the science teacher be required to teach the students about your God?  Why should parents of students who believe in some other God(s) or none have to put up with it?

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2011 - 11:33AM #7
Sacrificialgoddess
Posts: 9,496

Jun 1, 2011 -- 8:23AM, amcolph wrote:


Christians are not terrorists.




No, but "Bible-believing" Christians are a pain it the butt.





And there have been Christian terrorists, so you can't say that all Christians are good and loving and kind.  It just isn't so.


 


And that "Well, they weren't really Christians" thing doesn't fly.  They think of themselves as Christians, representing Christ and doing his work. And so they become your problem.

Dark Energy. It can be found in the observable Universe. Found in ratios of 75% more than any other substance. Dark Energy. It can be found in religious extremists, in cheerleaders. To come to the conclusion that Dark signifies mean and malevolent would define 75% of the Universe as an evil force. Alternatively, to think that some cheerleaders don't have razors in their snatch is to be foolishly unarmed.

-- Tori Amos
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2011 - 4:55PM #8
Do_unto_others
Posts: 9,318

May 31, 2011 -- 11:23PM, Vistronic wrote:


What is everyone paranoid and afraid of?


Christians are not terrorists.





The people that have been denied equal treatment before the law due to the support of "Christians" would beg to differ. Their very lives are no the line. They've had their lives threatened. They've had their children taken away, their homes taken away, their jobs taken away.


SOME "Christians" shit on the Constitution when it comes to OTHER PEOPLE'S rights and freedoms. (Witness Prop H8.)


SOME "Christians" are, most assuredly "terrorists".

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 04, 2011 - 11:38PM #9
Vistronic
Posts: 1,832

Look I am for seperation of church and state within reason, but lets look at this case


Appeals court allows prayer at Texas high school's graduation



PRAYER










June 03, 2011|By the CNN Wire Staff




Honorary  speakers at a Texas high school's commencement ceremonies will be  allowed to invoke prayer at their graduation Saturday after a federal  appeals court overturned a judge's ruling that would have banned it.


The  ban, imposed Wednesday by U.S. District Court Judge Fred Biery, caught  the attention of Gov. Rick Perry and state Attorney General Greg Abbott,  who supported an emergency appeal filed by the Medina Valley  Independent School District on Thursday.


"It should not be illegal  for students to say a prayer at a graduation ceremony. Now, the federal  court of appeals agrees," Abbott said in a statement Friday following  the reversal.







Advertisement





The  original lawsuit was filed last week by an agnostic family whose son  attends Medina Valley High School in Castroville, about 30 miles west of  San Antonio. The Schultz family said their son would suffer  "irreparable harm" if anyone prayed at the graduation ceremony.


Biery  ruled in favor of the Schultz family and ordered the school district to  remove the words "invocation" and "benediction" from the program of  ceremonies, replacing them with "opening remarks" and "closing remarks."  The judge further ordered that students and other speakers to refrain  from asking those in the audience to "stand," "join in prayer" or "bow  their heads."


"They shall not otherwise deliver a message that  would commonly be understood to be a prayer, nor use the word 'prayer,'"  Biery wrote in his ruling.


Perry called the ruling "reprehensible."


"The  First Amendment prohibits governments from interfering with Americans'  rights to freely express their religious beliefs, and accordingly the  U.S. Supreme Court has maintained that Congress may convene every day  with a prayer," Perry said in a statement.


In addition to the  school district's emergency appeal, the Liberty Institute, acting on  behalf of class valedictorian Angela Hildenbrand, filed an emergency  motion for intervention in the case.


Kelly Shackelford, president  and CEO of the nonprofit organization that champions constitutional  rights, issued a statement following the court's reversal, saying it "is  a complete victory for religious freedom and for Angela."


Ayesha  Khan, an attorney for the Schultz family, had argued that prayer at the  school's graduation ceremonies were not student-initiated, but  government-sponsored, and put pressure on audience members to  participate against their beliefs.


"Those that do not participate get disapproved by the community," she told CNN.


In  dissolving Biery's injunction, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled  that the Schultz family had not persuaded the three-judge panel "that  the individual prayers or other remarks to be given by students at  graduation are, in fact, school-sponsored."


____________________________________


Is this not the correct ruling?


See this


"The  First Amendment prohibits governments from interfering with  Americans'  rights to freely express their religious beliefs, and  accordingly the  U.S. Supreme Court has maintained that Congress may  convene every day  with a prayer," Perry said in a statement.


 


So congress can but school can not....?

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2011 - 6:36PM #10
amcolph
Posts: 18,272

Jun 4, 2011 -- 11:38PM, Vistronic wrote:


"The First Amendment prohibits governments from interfering with Americans' rights to freely express their religious beliefs, and accordingly the U.S. Supreme Court has maintained that Congress may convene every day with a prayer," Perry said in a statement.


 


So congress can but school can not....?





Congress can do many things that school cannot.  All Congressmen are are adults who are vountarily present.


But let me ask you this:


Would a Moslem valedictorian be allowed to introduce an Islamic prayer into his or her remarks at that school?


Would that right be extended to a Mormon?  A Catholic?  A Jew?


Knowing what I do about that part of Texas, I seriously doubt it.


What do you think? 

This post contains no advertisements or solicitations.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 7  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook