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3 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2011 - 8:45PM #41
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:27PM, IDBC wrote:

The fact remains that there are Not-Real So-Called Muslims and Christians who have strayed from the "true path"  and are Nazis. 


Have A Thinking Day And Don't Let Religion Blind You



I don't think many were claiming they were good representatives of either faith. Most Nazis, both historically and modern, claim to be Christian although there's a notable minority who claim to be Asatru and apparently, at least one who claims to be Muslim.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2011 - 2:00PM #42
IDBC
Posts: 4,569

Howdy


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:45PM, Ebon wrote:


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:27PM, IDBC wrote:

The fact remains that there are Not-Real So-Called Muslims and Christians who have strayed from the "true path"  and are Nazis. 


Have A Thinking Day And Don't Let Religion Blind You



I don't think many were claiming they were good representatives of either faith. Most Nazis, both historically and modern, claim to be Christian although there's a notable minority who claim to be Asatru and apparently, at least one who claims to be Muslim.




I don't know how many of them believed that tehy were good respresentives of their faiths but I would tend to doubt that they thought they were "bad" representives of their faiths.  I also think that there is more than one Muslim who believes that Nazi idealogy and Islamic theology are compatable.  


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2011 - 2:18PM #43
mytmouse57
Posts: 9,782

Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:00PM, IDBC wrote:


Howdy


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:45PM, Ebon wrote:


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:27PM, IDBC wrote:

The fact remains that there are Not-Real So-Called Muslims and Christians who have strayed from the "true path"  and are Nazis. 


Have A Thinking Day And Don't Let Religion Blind You



I don't think many were claiming they were good representatives of either faith. Most Nazis, both historically and modern, claim to be Christian although there's a notable minority who claim to be Asatru and apparently, at least one who claims to be Muslim.




I don't know how many of them believed that tehy were good respresentives of their faiths but I would tend to doubt that they thought they were "bad" representives of their faiths.  I also think that there is more than one Muslim who believes that Nazi idealogy and Islamic theology are compatable.  


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You





And many Nazis are/were also atheists. Or agnostics, or worshipers of the old Norse gods.


Nothing like diversity, eh?

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2011 - 3:34PM #44
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:00PM, IDBC wrote:

I don't know how many of them believed that tehy were good respresentives of their faiths but I would tend to doubt that they thought they were "bad" representives of their faiths.  I also think that there is more than one Muslim who believes that Nazi idealogy and Islamic theology are compatable.  


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You



Well, historically, we know the faiths of those in the Nazi party. One faction thought of themselves as good Christians (albeit, they had some very creative interpretations of the Bible) although I take your point that pretty much everyone thinks of themselves as good representatives of their faith. No army in history has marched to war believeing God was against them after all (Satanists, who know damn well that God is against us, have never formed an army). However, we may make the evaluation that they were bad representatives of their respective faiths. The largest faction may or may not have any particular faith but were happy to abuse the faith of teh masses. Another faction, the smallest, were "strong" athiests who hated religion and another faction had a kind of hodge-podge approach to paganism (in particular, Norse/Germanic paganism) where they collected relics and performed assorted rituals but, in most cases, with no real understanding of teh belief systems that underpinned them. Hitler himself never consistently sided with any of them and made so many contradictory statements that we have no idea what, if anything, he actually believed.


And yes, there are very likely a few Muslims who see no conflict between Fascism and Islam. As a right-fringe ideaology, Fascism can usually be made to fit with a very conservative interpretation of any faith, mutatis mutandis. Of course, certain faiths fit better than others. The very conservative interpretations of Christianity and Islam, with their emphasis on "saved" and "lost" fits well with the Fascist obsession with heirarchy, for example.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2011 - 5:04PM #45
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:18PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:00PM, IDBC wrote:


Howdy


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:45PM, Ebon wrote:


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:27PM, IDBC wrote:

The fact remains that there are Not-Real So-Called Muslims and Christians who have strayed from the "true path"  and are Nazis. 


Have A Thinking Day And Don't Let Religion Blind You



I don't think many were claiming they were good representatives of either faith. Most Nazis, both historically and modern, claim to be Christian although there's a notable minority who claim to be Asatru and apparently, at least one who claims to be Muslim.




I don't know how many of them believed that tehy were good respresentives of their faiths but I would tend to doubt that they thought they were "bad" representives of their faiths.  I also think that there is more than one Muslim who believes that Nazi idealogy and Islamic theology are compatable.  


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You





And many Nazis are/were also atheists. Or agnostics, or worshipers of the old Norse gods.


Nothing like diversity, eh?





I believe that is what Asatru is, the worship of the Norse gods. Perhaps an Asatru believer can correct me if I am mistaken.

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 05, 2011 - 5:59PM #46
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Jun 5, 2011 -- 5:04PM, Roodog wrote:


Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:18PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:00PM, IDBC wrote:


Howdy


Jun 2, 2011 -- 8:45PM, Ebon wrote:


I don't think many were claiming they were good representatives of either faith. Most Nazis, both historically and modern, claim to be Christian although there's a notable minority who claim to be Asatru and apparently, at least one who claims to be Muslim.




I don't know how many of them believed that tehy were good respresentives of their faiths but I would tend to doubt that they thought they were "bad" representives of their faiths.  I also think that there is more than one Muslim who believes that Nazi idealogy and Islamic theology are compatable.  


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You





And many Nazis are/were also atheists. Or agnostics, or worshipers of the old Norse gods.


Nothing like diversity, eh?





I believe that is what Asatru is, the worship of the Norse gods. Perhaps an Asatru believer can correct me if I am mistaken.




There are bigoted morons in every group and the whole should never be condemned for the actions of fruitcakes. You can find radicals in all religions and among those with no religion at all who hate people and want to hurt their fellow humans.


You're correct on Asatru, but it varies geographically. It can be equated with Odinism and Northern Heathenry.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2011 - 11:25AM #47
IDBC
Posts: 4,569

Howdy Mytmouse


Jun 5, 2011 -- 2:18PM, mytmouse57 wrote:


 
And many Nazis are/were also atheists. Or agnostics, or worshipers of the old Norse gods.


Nothing like diversity, eh?





Why would an atheist, agnostic, or a Bahia be a Nazi?


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You

HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2011 - 12:38PM #48
Ebon
Posts: 10,148

Jun 6, 2011 -- 11:25AM, IDBC wrote:

Why would an atheist, agnostic, or a Bahia be a Nazi?


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You



One word answer: Power.

He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God. ~ Proverbs 14:31

Fiat justitia, ruat caelum

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3 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2011 - 2:03PM #49
IDBC
Posts: 4,569

howdy Ebon


Jun 6, 2011 -- 12:38PM, Ebon wrote:


Jun 6, 2011 -- 11:25AM, IDBC wrote:

Why would an atheist, agnostic, or a Bahia be a Nazi?




One word answer: Power.




How would becoming a Nazi give a person power? 


Most Nazis had little power.   The vast majority of them were powerless.  They "followed orders"  not gave orders. 

And would a Lucifierian Satanist become a Nazi to attain Power?


 


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HAVE A THINKING DAY MAY REASON GUIDE YOU
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3 years ago  ::  Jun 06, 2011 - 2:56PM #50
BDboy
Posts: 5,843

Jun 6, 2011 -- 12:38PM, Ebon wrote:


Jun 6, 2011 -- 11:25AM, IDBC wrote:

Why would an atheist, agnostic, or a Bahia be a Nazi?


Have A Thinking Day May Reason Guide You



One word answer: Power.





 


>>>>>> Good answer!

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