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Locked: The Fate of Christians in the Middle East
3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 6:06PM #391
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,257

Sherri


I can not say where you get your “inspiration from,” and I do not really care. What I care about is your absolute blindness; your spreading of hatred and lies; your support for terror and terrorists and;  your support for the destruction of the State of Israel and its citizens.  However, your purported source of inspiration contains not a single word or phrase which says a single thing about the Arab/Israeli conflict, the incessant  Arab terror campaign which has been going on for the last 100 years or so, or anything else having to do with the State of Israel, the peace process, the fate of Christians in the middle east or anything else relevant to this discussion. 


Wrapping yourself up in scripture (no matter how well or how ineptly done) and pretending to speak for G-d does you no credit and aids your cause not one wit.


If you would like to defend the morality of your position, then you have to explain your lack of concern for Israelis, Palestinians not residing in Israel or the disputed territories, non-Palestinian Arabs, Christians living in Arab countries or anyone else who actually is suffering or has a legitimate grievance. You might also want to explain your lack of concern for Palestinians who suffer at the hands of other Palestinians, particularly christian Palestinians who have been forced out by their Muslim compatriots. Or is that asking too much of you?


Again, while I may not always know the answer to the question WWJD?  I do know that it would not be what you are doing.


- - - -


As a side note on how to read a text: you might have noticed that nothing said in the passages actually befell the generation of Jesus which was the point of the passage. Of course, if one actually read the passage, one would see that the passage would only refer to the generation it is describing. The language is quite clear.


By the way, you do know that Jesus was a Pharisee, right?

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 6:15PM #392
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,257

Sherri


You wrote:


A few years ago I bought a Catholic Study Bible, because I wanted to  read the books a part of the Catholic Bible not included in my  Protestant Bible. And I was shocked to read the authors of the Study  Bible say Matthew 23 was Anti Semitic. These are actual words of Jesus,  being called by some Christians Anti Semitic. It is simply beyond my  ability to understand how any person calling themselves a Christian can  call Jesus and His very own words Anti Semitic.


In this case you are factually incorrect. What you read in Matthew are not the actual words of Jesus. Matthew never met Jesus and never heard him utter a single word. Matthew (and the other Gospel writers) re-wrote the Jesus story based on other written and oral versions in circulation at the time and crafted their Gospels to appeal to their audience.


The words of Matthew in Matthew 23 did serve as one of the basis for anti-semitic preaching by the Chruch.  Whether you believe that they are anti-semitic or not, is sort of besides the point. In any event, they are an inaccurate description of early Rabinic Judaism. However, since Matthew was not learned in Judaism and since he was desperately trying to separate his new Jesus faith from Judaism, that is to be expected. 


I would be happy to discuss this with you further in a more appropriate forum. 


Finally, you have a very odd way of showing love. I would not think that love is shown by spreading hate. who knew? 


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 6:29PM #393
SherriMunnerlyn
Posts: 7,492

Aug 31, 2011 -- 6:06PM, rocketjsquirell wrote:


Sherri


I can not say where you get your “inspiration from,” and I do not really care. What I care about is your absolute blindness; your spreading of hatred and lies; your support for terror and terrorists and; your support for the destruction of the State of Israel and its citizens. However, your purported source of inspiration contains not a single word or phrase which says a single thing about the Arab/Israeli conflict, the incessant  Arab terror campaign which has been going on for the last 100 years or so, or anything else having to do with the State of Israel, the peace process, the fate of Christians in the middle east or anything else relevant to this discussion. 


Wrapping yourself up in scripture (no matter how well or how ineptly done) and pretending to speak for G-d does you no credit and aids your cause not one wit.


If you would like to defend the morality of your position, then you have to explain your lack of concern for Israelis, Palestinians not residing in Israel or the disputed territories, non-Palestinian Arabs, Christians living in Arab countries or anyone else who actually is suffering or has a legitimate grievance. You might also want to explain your lack of concern for Palestinians who suffer at the hands of other Palestinians, particularly christian Palestinians who have been forced out by their Muslim compatriots. Or is that asking too much of you?


Again, while I may not always know the answer to the question WWJD? I do know that it would not be what you are doing.


- - - -


As a side note on how to read a text: you might have noticed that nothing said in the passages actually befell the generation of Jesus which was the point of the passage. Of course, if one actually read the passage, one would see that the passage would only refer to the generation it is describing. The language is quite clear.


By the way, you do know that Jesus was a Pharisee, right?





rocketjsquirrel,


The relevance of Matthew 23 is that it is Jesus response to injustices of his own people, how He spoke against their injustices, and He did not only speak, He engaged in actions against injustices, too. There is another Bible verse where He cleared the Temple of moneychangers. And the Occupation is a sin against God, an evil, an injustice, like slavery, like the Holocaust. Jesus words are intended to guide Christians in how to live today, we are to LIVE His teachings in our lives. So, Matthew 23 most definitely has present applications.


I do not know that Jesus was a Pharisee, the Bible does not address that question. He could have been, but I doubt it. Whether He was or not, His words are not adressed to all of the people in the groups identified, but to the ones engaging in the unjust actions He addresses by His words.  The Apostle Paul was a Pharisee who later converted to Christianity, so that right there is proof Jesus words were most definitely not intended to condemn all Pharisees or all Jews.  And then there is Paul's words later, he says not a day goes by that He does not pray for his fellow Jews. I think that was the thorn in his side addressed in other scriptures, that he asked God to remove, the burden he carried with him always.


Another interesting point about Jesus, there is no verse where He speaks to the Roman Occupiers the way He addresses his own people in Matthew 23.


Now, why is that?


I could come up with possible reasons, that may or may not be right.


But the bottomline is this, it is not for me to question, but it is for me to obey His commands to me.


Sherri

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 7:00PM #394
rocketjsquirell
Posts: 15,257

SHERRI


1. Assuming that there actually is something which could legitimately be called “the occupation” please explain how “the Occupation is a sin against God, an evil, an injustice, like slavery, like the Holocaust”  Since you couch your condemnation in terms of G-d and religion, while answering the question, please explain in detail how Jewish control over land given by G-d to the Jews can be “occupation” a sin against G-d. Kindly explain the basis for your comparison of what you describe as “occupation” with slavery and the Holocaust.


2.  If Matthew 23 was “ Jesus response to injustices of his own people”  how is it “ intended to guide Christians in how to live today “, either it was directed to the Jews of Jesus time or to you now.


3.  You wrote: “ I do not know that Jesus was a Pharisee, the Bible does not address that question ”  I thought you had actually read the Christian Gospels. Isn't Jesus described as preaching to the people and telling them what the law means and what G-d wants of them? If so, he was a Pharisee.


4.  The Apostle Paul was not a Pharisee. In order to have been a Pharisee he would have had to know something about Judaism. If one reads Paul, and if one knows something of Judaism, you would know that he didn't.


5. Jesus did not address his words to the Roman people at all.


Again, I would be delighted to discuss your understanding of the Christian Gospels with you in an appropriate forum.


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3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 7:11PM #395
LeahOne
Posts: 16,093

Sherri, your first error should be obvious:  Jesus seems to have considered himself a Jew speaking to and about other Jews.


Since you've publically thanked our Creator and GOD that you are not a Jew like me - I don't see how it could ever be possible for you to emulate Jesus' view on the topic.


After all, Sherri, you've previously explained to us that the salient point of our faith *in your eyes* is that we "reject Jesus" - never-mind the 1500 years Judaism was practiced and developed before Jesus was born.

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3 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2011 - 7:12PM #396
LeahOne
Posts: 16,093

Oh, and Rocket is completely correct in his analysis.

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3 years ago  ::  Sep 01, 2011 - 12:27AM #397
rangerken
Posts: 16,407

This thread, having turned into a religious debate for the third time, and not being suitable for moving, has been and will remain locked.


Rangerken

Libertarian, Conservative, Life member of the NRA and VFW
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