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Switch to Forum Live View replacing private companies with public workers to save money
4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:26AM #21
drawout
Posts: 5,910

Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:07AM, Captainmarvel wrote:


Even though your still wrong...it seems nothing less than 100 percent governement workforce will be satisfactory.I mean,wouldnt 100 percent government labor for everything be the cheapeast way to go? Using your matrix it would.(untill nothing got done and the French says Mr. Obama Tear this Wall Down.




 Isnt that what business owners want? Walmart and the entire fast food industry count on the government to feed,house and provide medical care for their employees through food stamps,section 8 and emergency room care. Thats why their products are so cheap. You already paid for them whether you shop there or not.

'When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.' - Mark Twain
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:30AM #22
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 11,894

Apr 4, 2011 -- 10:36PM, Captainmarvel wrote:


Only the left will equate,a private company paid job with a tax funded job.However,those that dont pay any taxes, of course prefer this.




Job=Job, nothing partisan about simple arithmetic. Didn't you learn that in elementary school? Perhaps your school district was underfunded.


I pay quite a bit in taxes, and much prefer funding things that help people rather than what kills them. Jobs are a far better investment than bombers, for instance.

The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:42AM #23
amcolph
Posts: 17,692

Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:21AM, Captainmarvel wrote:


WoW! Thats so Very enlightened! So how come at Every turn it seems the left wants MORE government?NEVER LESS.



LOL! Maybe for the same reason the right wants more power for the oligarchs, NEVER LESS.


 


So,give some examples of what governmnent agencies you would prefer to be abolished! Or...ummmm,can you not think of any that should be.




 


 


The CIA.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:44AM #24
Captainmarvel
Posts: 765

Even Building Bombers creates Jobs!...or don't they count cause you dont like em!


 

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:46AM #25
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 11,894

Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:04AM, Bodean wrote:


If the states acted in accordance with the normal rules that govern business, I'd say that those who argue "labor cost are equal" would be correct.  But the truth of the matter is, they do not operate according to the same rules.


Business has to operate within budget, with revenue determined by the amount of incomming revenue, vs liabilities.  States on the otherhand, do not have an "income revenue stream" ... they have taxes ... a never ending supply of taxes.  If they need more money, they raise taxes.


One only need to compare the salaries for teachers in the puiblic schools vs private schools to see this facade that labor cost are equal ...


"So what gives when you look at public-school and private-school teachers? The National Center for Education Statistics puts it this way: Using 2007-2008 data (the latest available), the average "total school-year and summer earned income" for public school teachers was $53,230 . The equivalent for private-school teachers was $39,690.


That's a whopping $13,540 differential on salary alone"


NOPE ... labor cost are not equal.




I would much rather pay that difference in salary and feel that higher quality teachers are being attracted to teach other people how to be productive members of society who don't feel a need to burglarize my house or carjack my loved ones than pay full salary retirement for single term elected Federal politicians, which is a far higher expense.


Funny how nobody crying crocodile tears about budgets ever mentions that, eh?

The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 9:49AM #26
Father_Oblivion
Posts: 11,894

Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:44AM, Captainmarvel wrote:


Even Building Bombers creates Jobs!...or don't they count cause you dont like em!


 




That is government subsidized jobs and government subsidized profits! A double subsidy, much worse than a directly hired government worker!

The important thing to remember about American history is that it is fictional, a charcoal-sketched simplicity for the children or the easily bored. For the most part it is uninspected, unimagined, unthought, a representative of the thing and not the thing itself. It is a fine fiction...
Neil Gaiman
'American Gods'

‎"Ignorance of ignorance, then, is that self-satisfied state of unawareness in which man, knowing nothing outside the limited area of his physical senses, bumptiously declares there is nothing more to know! He who knows no life save the physical is merely ignorant; but he who declares physical life to be all-important and elevates it to the position of supreme reality--such a one is ignorant of his own ignorance."
- Manly Palmer Hall
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 10:00AM #27
Fodaoson
Posts: 11,158

Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:04AM, Bodean wrote:


If the states acted in accordance with the normal rules that govern business, I'd say that those who argue "labor cost are equal" would be correct.  But the truth of the matter is, they do not operate according to the same rules.


Business has to operate within budget, with revenue determined by the amount of incomming revenue, vs liabilities.  States on the otherhand, do not have an "income revenue stream" ... they have taxes ... a never ending supply of taxes.  If they need more money, they raise taxes.


One only need to compare the salaries for teachers in the puiblic schools vs private schools to see this facade that labor cost are equal ...


"So what gives when you look at public-school and private-school teachers? The National Center for Education Statistics puts it this way: Using 2007-2008 data (the latest available), the average "total school-year and summer earned income" for public school teachers was $53,230 . The equivalent for private-school teachers was $39,690.


That's a whopping $13,540 differential on salary alone"


NOPE ... labor cost are not equal.






Public entities work with in a budget. School districts that run over budget have to lay off employee or close certain activities, Cities  lay off worker and  delay contracts , States close  down activities and lay off  employees.  Even the military cuts employees, cuts training and closes activities. In the military was fund manager on two occasions. I had to manage within the budget, I denied certain activities, had project officers cut costs and delayed other expenditures.  I have been on field training exercises with a Mech infantry   unit  where MRE’s were used instead of field kitchen rations,  Where the soldiers went leg instead of mounted and Ina Armor unit when a exercise  was converted to a simulation center  exercise instead of field exercise   to save fuel, rations, maintenance costs .   A deployment to NTC was cancelled. 


 The government deficit is a result of CONGRESSIONAL  non restraint  rather Government employees 


 

“I seldom make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect.” Edward Gibbon
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 10:12AM #28
Girlchristian
Posts: 11,393

Apr 5, 2011 -- 10:00AM, Fodaoson wrote:


Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:04AM, Bodean wrote:


If the states acted in accordance with the normal rules that govern business, I'd say that those who argue "labor cost are equal" would be correct.  But the truth of the matter is, they do not operate according to the same rules.


Business has to operate within budget, with revenue determined by the amount of incomming revenue, vs liabilities.  States on the otherhand, do not have an "income revenue stream" ... they have taxes ... a never ending supply of taxes.  If they need more money, they raise taxes.


One only need to compare the salaries for teachers in the puiblic schools vs private schools to see this facade that labor cost are equal ...


"So what gives when you look at public-school and private-school teachers? The National Center for Education Statistics puts it this way: Using 2007-2008 data (the latest available), the average "total school-year and summer earned income" for public school teachers was $53,230 . The equivalent for private-school teachers was $39,690.


That's a whopping $13,540 differential on salary alone"


NOPE ... labor cost are not equal.






Public entities work with in a budget. School districts that run over budget have to lay off employee or close certain activities, Cities  lay off worker and  delay contracts , States close  down activities and lay off  employees.  Even the military cuts employees, cuts training and closes activities. In the military was fund manager on two occasions. I had to manage within the budget, I denied certain activities, had project officers cut costs and delayed other expenditures.  I have been on field training exercises with a Mech infantry   unit  where MRE’s were used instead of field kitchen rations,  Where the soldiers went leg instead of mounted and Ina Armor unit when a exercise  was converted to a simulation center  exercise instead of field exercise   to save fuel, rations, maintenance costs .   A deployment to NTC was cancelled. 


 The government deficit is a result of CONGRESSIONAL  non restraint  rather Government employees 


 




In my state during the last election, many school districts put a tax increase to help balance their budgets up for a vote. In my township and others, the people overwhelmingly voted for an increase to help (I believe it was 1%), but in several others, the people voted no and demanded that the school look at their budget closer and "prove" that they needed the extra money.

"No matter how dark the moment, love and hope are always possible." George Chakiris

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 10:21AM #29
amcolph
Posts: 17,692

Apr 5, 2011 -- 9:44AM, Captainmarvel wrote:


Even Building Bombers creates Jobs!...or don't they count cause you dont like em!


 




That doesn't really count because building a bomber only create jobs once--at government expense.


An airliner or air cargo plane built by the same workers in the same factory creates wealth--and jobs--for years afterwards.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 05, 2011 - 11:25AM #30
Jstanl
Posts: 5,485

Apr 4, 2011 -- 10:53AM, Father_Oblivion wrote:


Apr 4, 2011 -- 8:48AM, davelaw40 wrote:


its counter-intuitive


increase competition drive down costs


public employees = less competition





Not really. Among utilities, the expense of proper maintenance isn't sacrificed resulting in lower long term operating costs. Privately run utilities commonly cut corners as much as possible. I know this from first hand experience. Publicly run utilities are directly accountable to the voters, while privately owned ones are not and are trying to turn a profit, while that is not one of the goals of a publicly held utility.


I have no reason to think that there is a large difference in other public/privatized fields.





You are absolutely wrong.  Maintenance is chronically neglected in our management culture, both in public and private sectors.  But the worst by far is in the public sector.  The problem is funding.  Politicians will not fund maintenance because it does not buy votes.  They spend their money on new projects that get them publicity.


OTOH; the private sector is more motivated to protect what they have (keep it operating) because new and replacement cost come straight from the profit margin and government tax laws do not encourage new money spent on infrastructure/investment.


Also private sector employees are more productive.


Further, contractors can be used when needed and sent back to the shop when they are not.  Public employess become a permenent overhead that are there whether they are needed or not.

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