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Switch to Forum Live View Appropriate response to Westboro and the Phelps Klan.
4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 3:27PM #31
mountain_man
Posts: 40,573

Mar 22, 2011 -- 2:47PM, Stephenway wrote:

It is very true that people need to control emotional outbursts.  I think we are all prone to getting upset about things that touch a personal cord.


The first thing one needs to do in controlling emotional outbursts is to recognize that your emotions are your creation - and responsibility. No one can make you mad. Remember that old childrens rhyme; sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. They were right.


But getting upset is precisely what the WBC did about something that they can really have little effect on (at least that I know of).  The prime issue is how to handle or deal with being upset.


No, that is the only issue here. Some people choose to make themselves upset over what the WBC says. They are letting the WBC control their emotions. I will not let the WBC control my emotions or my actions. I do what is right. I don't care what they do. Don't give them the power over your emotions.


This isn't something I've made up myself. There is a rapidly growing school of psychology called Cognitive Therapy. I was friends with Dr. Albert Ellis, the guy that put it all together. THis isn't pop psychology either.


I protect their legal right to protest, but there needs to be some legal control over their venu.  If two opposing groups want to protest at the same time, then there should be a law that says they have to be at least so many blocks apart to avoid confrontation.  When people are grieving (or even anything thing else for that matter) people who are protesting should maintain at least a comfortable distance to not interfere with other people rights to freedom of assembly (whether if be a funeral, wedding, or any recognised ceremony).


There is control. They have to get permits and those permits are site specific. I have organized several protests in my day. One huge protest I got permits for was against the so called "Promise Keepers."


I disagree that for centuries the Christian religion has placed very little value on human life. 


They don't call them the Dark Ages for nothing.


 Many people in this world may call themselves Christian, but that does not mean their conduct constitutes the teachings of Christ.....


And those other christians would say the same thing about you. That's why the No True Scotsman Fallacy is a fallacy. I'd find you a link to explain the NTSF but I'm not at home and I'm using a very strange computer. My power went out early yesterday morning and is not due to come back on for another day or two. We had 5 inches of rain in one day and then in the evening a foot of snow. The whole area is a mess. I bailed out and went to stay at a friends house in the Bay Area.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 3:31PM #32
mountain_man
Posts: 40,573

Mar 22, 2011 -- 3:15PM, Cesmom wrote:

A friend of mine posted this on their facebook page, and I was so amused, I've passed it along.  Just seemed fitting...


So the US Supreme Court has ruled that you have the right under the First Amendment to protest military funerals. 
I invite you to start your protest in my front yard and we can see if your First Amendment is better than my Second Amendment.


It is fitting that the words of a nutcase would come up when discussing another nutcase. Only a fool would want to shoot, kill, and then spend the rest of their life in prison, just because someone said something they didn't like.

Dave - Just a Man in the Mountains.

I am a Humanist. I believe in a rational philosophy of life, informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by a desire to do good for its own sake and not by an expectation of a reward or fear of punishment in an afterlife.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 3:43PM #33
Cesmom
Posts: 5,385

Mar 22, 2011 -- 3:23PM, Christianlib wrote:


Why do you think it's a choice, Ces.


And, as I recall, the 2nd gives us the right to "keep and bear arms" it doesn't grant a right to murder.


Frankly, I find your argument a bit violent, not as violent and sickening as the Phelps, but pushing it.





Well, it was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek.  I don't literally think that violence is okay, but groups like Phelps understandably make people angry.  And as much as they abuse the rights granted to them by the Constitution, it's equally as tempting to want to abuse a few rights to use against them.  Again, it was meant to be a bit of sarcasm, but the emotion behind it is still valid.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 3:43PM #34
Stephenway
Posts: 225

Mar 22, 2011 -- 3:23PM, Christianlib wrote:


Why do you think it's a choice, Ces.


And, as I recall, the 2nd gives us the right to "keep and bear arms" it doesn't grant a right to murder.


Frankly, I find your argument a bit violent, not as violent and sickening as the Phelps, but pushing it.





With all due respect, she did say "In my front yard".  I'm not a mind reader, but I think she meant that if she were at a funeral, no one else should have a right to disturb her grieving and peace.


One person's rights shouldn't give them the right to infringe on someone else's space.


Love ya', Steve

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 3:46PM #35
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

And, with all due respect, there is no law that you may murder a person for something they say, even "in your front yard."


I'll stick with my statement.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 4:10PM #36
Cesmom
Posts: 5,385

Mar 22, 2011 -- 3:46PM, Christianlib wrote:


And, with all due respect, there is no law that you may murder a person for something they say, even "in your front yard."


I'll stick with my statement.





Actually, in some states, it's not unheard of to get away with shooting someone for trespassing.  Not that I personally agree with it, but it's not unheard of for someone to do so without punishment.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 4:10PM #37
Yavanna
Posts: 3,149

Mar 22, 2011 -- 11:19AM, arielg wrote:


"Thank God for dead soldiers" is more Christian than blessing them to go and kill. Not nice, but true.  Dead soldiers don't kill anyone.





Really sick. I never knew you were a Westboro type.

The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fell like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells.

For ancient king and elvish lord
There many a gloaming golden hoard
They shaped and wrought, and light they caught
To hide in gems on hilt of sword.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 4:43PM #38
Christianlib
Posts: 21,848

Mar 22, 2011 -- 4:10PM, Cesmom wrote:


Mar 22, 2011 -- 3:46PM, Christianlib wrote:


And, with all due respect, there is no law that you may murder a person for something they say, even "in your front yard."


I'll stick with my statement.





Actually, in some states, it's not unheard of to get away with shooting someone for trespassing.  Not that I personally agree with it, but it's not unheard of for someone to do so without punishment.




Basic NRA urban legend there.  Neither legal nor right.

Democrats think the glass is half full.
Republicans think the glass is theirs.
Libertarians want to break the glass, because they think a conspiracy created it.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 5:58PM #39
MMarcoe
Posts: 17,611

I applaud the fact that the bikers in the video found a way to let the Phelpses practice their 1st Amendment rights while also finding a solution of their own.


On the other hand, this is just going to feed the Phelpses' feeling of righteousness.

1. Extremists think that thinking means agreeing with them.
2. There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.
3. God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2011 - 5:58PM #40
Cesmom
Posts: 5,385

Mar 22, 2011 -- 4:43PM, Christianlib wrote:


Mar 22, 2011 -- 4:10PM, Cesmom wrote:


Mar 22, 2011 -- 3:46PM, Christianlib wrote:


And, with all due respect, there is no law that you may murder a person for something they say, even "in your front yard."


I'll stick with my statement.





Actually, in some states, it's not unheard of to get away with shooting someone for trespassing.  Not that I personally agree with it, but it's not unheard of for someone to do so without punishment.




Basic NRA urban legend there.  Neither legal nor right.





It might not be right, but the law DOES at times rule in favor of the guy shooting the trespasser.  A couple of examples that have been discussed on this very forum...there was an elderly man that had an altercation with someone over his dog messing on his lawn...ended up shooting the guy and getting probation....there was another story about a guy who shot teenage kids coming into his house in the middle of the day with no charges brought against him.  So, it's not just an NRA urban legend.

Our need to learn should always outweigh our need to be right

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

More people would learn from their mistakes if they weren't so busy denying them.
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